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Comment by Pat on December 28, 2012 at 11:29am

Napoleon, I agree with Loren, Ed and Future. There is something else I would add. The reckless talk, by Staver, of revolution and violence serves two purposes for his listeners.

First, it's blatant pandering to the "apocalyptic" death wish of his followers. The great battle between good and evil, as foretold by their "holy" books, appeals to the members of his particular variation of the Abrahamic death cults - christianity. A great bloodletting where the good christian soldiers, falling in a heroic death, against the forces of satan and evil. Maybe not Islamic suicide bombers, but martyrs nevertheless.

Second, it also panders to the persecution meme so warmly and equally embraced by christians and muslims alike. Say or do something - anything - that their perverted sense of morality and justice oppose, and they compare themselves to lion bait in the Roman Coliseum. It's a good way to engender fear and ignorance in their followers. "See," says Staver, "you have enemies and they're out to destroy you." And, like Winston Smith's fellow citizens in Orwell's famous novel, they all get together for their "Hate Week" festivities.

It keeps the rubes in line, and more importantly, the money flowing in.

Comment by Future on December 28, 2012 at 10:17am

How blissfull it must be to live in a world where evidence is a meaningless concept.  To need no evidence that the US will implode with the legalization of gay marriage makes for easy fear mongering.  This is what religions thrive on.  Make a wildly inaccurate and unsubstantiated statement and treat it immediately as fact, then quickly widen the discussion to how perilous the outcome will be in as vague of terms as possible.   Marriage is not some mystical covenant like they pretend it is, it is a piece of paper signifying a commitment between two people.  Those who would muster up the effort for a civil war over this issue are the same exact people who are warning about the danger of civil war.  The rest of us don't care, and would much prefer that as tax paying citizens of this country, we are all allowed the freedom to commit to marriage with whomever we choose, provided it is consentual and between adults.

Comment by Loren Miller on December 27, 2012 at 8:16pm

Napoleon, the gay marriage issue is only symptomatic of a much greater issue, one I've spoken about more than once: the loss of religious and particularly fundamentalist influence in American government.  Up until very recently, christians in the US have been more or less at the controls and dominant without challenge.  They've managed to change the US motto from E Pluribus Unum to In god We Trust, put it on the money and make extravagant claims about the US being a christian nation.  They've pushed or attempted to push christian teachings such as creationism in public schools and symbols of biblical doctrine (such as the 10 commandments) in American courtrooms.

Lately, though, they're being handed setbacks, notably the approval of gay marriage in three states with this past election.  Their biblical nonsense is being increasingly dismissed or ignored as their influence wanes in the face of post-9/11 scrutiny of ALL religions.  I have felt for a while that there might be a christian backlash, though I feel that it is less likely to be the result of a single issue than the cumulative diminution of political and social leverage they have long assumed was theirs to exploit.

Something MIGHT happen.  As to how large and serious that something might be depends on multiple factors.  Still, the very fact that we are talking about that possibility means that the worst-case scenarios may be averted BECAUSE of our awareness of them.

In any case, forewarned is forearmed.

Comment by Napoleon Bonaparte on December 27, 2012 at 8:00pm

This guy is very passionate about his cause referring to revolution, civil war and the unraveling and destruction of a nation. I don't know American matters in detail but would you say he is wrong ? He and the likes of him will feel badly kicked in the ass if all the objectives of marriage reform are achieved. Would not this result in the loss of influence of the churches in society ? They wouldn't want that at all.

Comment by Loren Miller on December 27, 2012 at 7:19pm

These people make a bunch of assertions for which they have no evidence or explanation for the effective mechanisms.  No one and I mean NO ONE has said that ANY church will be forced to perform gay marriages against the will of the pastor or the congregation.  So here they are, wringing their hands MOSTLY because their church is losing clout and influence in what should be a secular issue in the first place - the issue of RIGHTS.

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