Hey, thanks for the link and suggestions. Much appreciated. I hadn't thought to search "secular" for some reason. I kept searching atheist and finding things that say atheists can't recover. Ugh. Religious people do not get it. It's so crazy how so many people can be so delirious with finding god that rational thought is completely out of reach. I'm really glad I joined Atheist Nexus, now, if for no other reason than having you see my new profile and reach out. Thanks, man.
Hey, you asked about the IV addiction...heroin and cocaine. Which I am terribly naive...and everything I'm finding for NA/AA/12 Step stuff is...all god based. There's a chapter in the big AA book called We the Agnostics and I thought, 'Oh, good. Sounds promising.' It's not helpful. It basically says you have to agree to accept a higher power or you're doomed to never recover. Tha fuck? Anyway, if you have some insight...
And I am so sorry for my extremely long delay! This semester has started crazy.
Yes, the situation is similar, that’s why I told it, a sympathetic reaction from across the World is nice. Of course we have a firm constitution, and we have some articles whose alteration isn’t possible by law, related to secularism and indivisibility of the country. They mentioned the possibilty to change even them, of course it wasn’t well received so they just let it go. We have a prime minister who has the leading role in legislation and a president who isn’t subject to any of the parties and considered impartial and he is the one for the final say in case of any alteration, but he has no say during the process, just the final. However the present president was a member of the religious political party currently dominating the assembly. They still have kind of invisible ties, turning the situation into a more complicated one.
Also, trashing the economy here too is one thing, which they can easily deny as it is going hilarious for large companies (but small and medium scale enterprises are suffering and unemployement is increasing), they also messed it up with the neighbours so the electric and gas bills have become impossible to pay for most people, I personally prefer to sleep at home in order to not use the gas. Above all they stabbed the judicial system in the heart with an amendment package and now it is biased. The ridicilous thing is that, as an answer to the negative responses, they held a referendum for a whole amendment package, and their partisan voters gave yes just out of love.
I totally get what you’re saying about the Republicans. I just cannot come to terms with the fact that the most genious strategy politicians can come up with is bullying.
I haven’t considered myself a politics nut even once in my life. Turkey is a young country, so I guess we are a little obsessed with what’s going on. This is like breakfast talk here. My Messenger address is email@example.com. But it probably won’t work to chat bc of the time difference, maybe e-mailing.
Turkey is not a Muslim theocracy in fact. The system is secular but, it doesn't work secularly lately. Last government was a hung parliament, however with the rising support (more than 47%) for the conservative party, now we are in the third! four-year term of the parliament with the predominance of the conservatives. And they can play with legislation as they like because of the numbers. The 10% election treshold makes it difficult for other parties to have deputies in the parliament, too.
And now, to prolong its kind of kingdom, the coservative party wants to change the system, they're just trying to figure out what it could be and to get feedback from the opposition, intellectuals and public by speculating things.
Sorry, commented on my own wall as a reply! Thanks for the welcome!
(In fact, Islam is the one religion coming to mind along with Turkey, Joseph. And, there are just two sects of it. Also, believe me or not, the fight and the subjects fighted over are aaalll the same. But interestingly enough, even the dialogue between nontheists in Turkey or Turkish platforms is always a fight. The air is never clean. Discussing is something. Fighting is something else. I get a headache even just reading the conversations.
Yes Joseph, "country" is a very mild way of describing the many towns that fall into the same characteristics. A very kind way, well one of the nicest ways I know to further describe places as these is closed mined. And no I do not dare say the whole town, I am sure there is the minute few that are exceptions.
Hello Joseph, You are right on point the "masses" I may have used that term in referencing to Winston are quite thin and scattered. two qualities that unfortunately make for an easy road to get something started here. As to answer where did I live before moving here, that would be Marshville NC. Trust me don't ask, don't even waste your time looking it up. it is a for or five red light town that lets just say would have me as a witch, a heathen, a devil worshiper or just plain crazy. Trust me when I tell you, Winston is a dream in comparison, which doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement.
Hi... Sorry my response is so delayed. Thanks so much for the gracious welcome. I have actually been in Winston a few years.. it is MUCH more liberal and accepting that where I moved from. However, you are correct in that the groups are almost nonexistent here. Hopefully with education, a voice, and of course "time" that will change.
Well, I guess when I started to open my eyes I really was terrified. For over 17 years I was a believing catholic. Than my friend told me about Christ and church and Bible and stuff from her point of few and I started to question the hole thing. I stood in that bloody church and it wasn´t okay for me any longer to repeat the creed. Great moment!
All peaked in a great but also disturbing film called "Agora". I just felt ashamed for beeing one of these bad guys. I still do.
But now I´m sitting here - in the middle of an extremly catholic household and watch George Carlin =D
I still have family and friends who are highly religious. I don't think they are all lying to themselves. For me, I held out believing in a god because I had believed for so long, it was hard to give that final belief up in god (basically I was agnostic for awhile). For others who believe I think there are many different motivations. For many it's just the culture they were raised with and they accept it because of that. Not so much Pascal's Wager, but their whole lives have been built on these beliefs and practices that they believe and could not imagine life without it. Perhaps too the idea that so many people believe in some type of god, so maybe they are on to something. And they were raised to believe this god and so they accept it. I've known very few people who believe because of Pascal's Wager, but I have known people who were religious because of that so that could be a motivation (this I feel is more dishonest, because they are more likely the people who are not sincere in their beliefs, and more likely to hold dualistic opposing ideas). For others it can be the constant in a tumultuous life. It could be what gives people comfort and hope. I think of religion as a social construct, and enough people feel they benefit from it to continue to buy in to it. I do think that we are social and still mildly tribal, and church can provide some of that feeling of belonging and can provide social ties. I don't know how to totally put this but I'll try, for some they may not have learned the tools to emotionally adapt to deal with the difficult times in life, and by praying it kind of lets people let go of their problems and manage how they feel. For some it may be they are outright lying to themselves, but it's usually more complicated than that. There are so many emotions and such a deep rooted belief that to question it breaks their whole reality. This can be shocking and difficult if there's not support. I don't think I would have come along to my position without the support of my husband and friends who were not religious. There are also a lot of lies in the church that the nonreligious person is unhappy, depressed, angry, lonely. My mom who is still religious sent me a sermon that touched on that, of course the transition can be difficult for some, but ultimately these lies hold people to religion. They refuse to accept that life could be happy, because they've been told it's so horrible. And part of that is because some people who are not religious are not happy, and some find religion and find their own happiness. This of course ignores all the unhappy religious people, and the happy nonreligious people. But I think there is refusal to listen because they may feel they could be convinced and that is scary. Because they don't want to lose their social support, their friends, their happiness. Like I said I lost something like 70% of my friends when I stopped going to church, I was young and had alternative ways to find friends, but others might not have the same option. For some (Mormons, Amish) it could mean losing contact with your whole family. For others it might be physically dangerous to leave religion. But whatever the reason to remain theist it's worth discussing with people and not making assumptions about their belief. They may believe so strongly that they are willing to ignore other ideas, their reality is so real to them they cannot accept other ideas. For others who believe in god but not a church may just need something to explain the things they don't understand, coincidence happens and it can seem like a higher power.
I went to a public high school and took biology and chemistry there, in my biology class I don't really remember evolution. I think it may have been brushed over, I do remember that Noah's flood was mentioned. I don't know if it's the same any more, and it was presented that there was evidence a flood in the Middle East. In high school I ate it up, I participated in and l
Thanks for the interest, my de-conversion took several years. The short version, I started working after school my senior year in high school where my co-workers were not really religious. I got a dose of what the rest of world was like, that people can be happy and okay outside of church. I had been on edge with the pastor as he had accused me of lying. I moved out of my parents house after high school but kept going to church for awhile. I started trying to date, and struggled really hard to reconcile wanting to date with wanting to not sin. I was dating off and on for a year, the time kind of melts together, but I think in that year I took a philosophy class. I was actually signed up to go to a non-accredited bible college when I met my now husband and I decided not to go (wow life would have been very different for me had I gone!). I stopped going to church. My husband and I talked about evolution which he understood and trusted, I had limited experience with it and didn't believe it. We talked about religion. He had tried Christianity for a couple years and he left because of how LGBTQ's were treated and inability to reconcile religion and evolution. The progression of stopping going to church, questioning the details of the god I was taught about, and realizing the bible wasn't true led me to the point of questioning god's existence completely. The thing that held me out so long was fear or something like that, I grew up my whole life believing in a god, and it was hard to give it up completely so quickly. That's the short story of it.
I am in an army band. And planning for the inevitable demise of the us army. Also a future career in law. Attempted Secular Humanist Chaplain, but it looks like litigation is necessary to make that a reality. Curious... Been vegetarian since childhood, attempt vegan now & again but it never sticks. Are you pro dead animals or anti vegan?