Comment

Comment by Stump Parrish on January 2, 2010 at 6:09am

Alexis, have no fear, I enjoy a good debate regardless of what started it or why.
"I think I see where you're coming from, that the government shouldn't *force* anyone to inhale deadly chemicals in order to save but a few lives, but in my view, cigarettes (again, I remind you, they are completely unnecessary to the health and welfare and happiness of ANYONE) are already dangerous and full of deadly chemicals, so what I don't see is the logic in complaining about *more* deadly chemicals being added to cigs by the government" I understand what you are saying however, the problem I have is not that the government has mandated these chemicals to be added. My problem stems from the fact that these companies have purchased our elected officials and by way of bribes and kickbacks have forced Americans to inhale these chemicals. Tobbacco by itself is not all that dangerous. It is the chemicals added to increase dependence upon cigarettes that bother me. I would venture to guess that 80% of all laws our government enacts on behalf of these companies are a direct result of payoffs. The health and welfare of American people are no where near as important to our elected officials as the money they recieve from said companies that help ensure that they remain in office. I have not done any new research prior to this following statement and it comes from memory. Lung cancer from smoking was never the problem it is today. American Indians and countless generations of all peoples have smoked tobacco. I agree with you that the chemicals being added are the primary problem with smoking today. If these companies added these chemicals with out the approval of our govenment there would be hell to pay. This is the problem with all of the examples you gave. Some company paid off a elected official to get the approval of our government. Insurance companies, television stations and food companies are operating with in the law. The problem is the process that allows companies to dictate what our laws will be and that these laws will benefit them at our expense.
In regards to the handguns you mentioned I do not have a problem with the safety features you mentioned being removed from hand guns. The only hole I see in your analogy is that each time you shoot a gun it does not harm nor eventially kill the the shooter. My original point was the determination of our government to protect and encourage stupidity. Considering how well our government is doing in educating our children, I can see why they feel the need to do this.
I agree with you that smokers should be allowed to grow their own tobacco and I remember reading something about this being allowed. I believe one must grow only for themselves and you still must pay the taxes that otherwise would be collected by the cigarette companies. This is one of the biggest worries I have about marijuana being legalized. It would take no more than five years for the government to take a safe and helpful plant and turn it into another form of tobacco. With in five years marijuana would become dangerous and addictive. I have been smoking marijuana for 35 years and I am not addicted. I am quite serious in that statement. I have been smoking cigarettes for 38 years and I know what an addiction is. If people actually took the time to think about it they would realize that cigarettes and alcohol are the true gateway drugs. I will stophere as this is a conversation for another day and another blog. In closing please remain on your soap box as this is an excellent chance for me to possibly learn something with each response you share. Have a great day and I look forward to continuing this discission. Thanks, Rick

Comment by Alexis G. on January 1, 2010 at 9:36am

Happy New Year to you, too Stump. I apologize for hijacking your blog subject on this one detail; I'm sure that is not what you had in mind.
No, I don't have an ex husband; I have a current one who is also an ex christian/ex smoker. His dad was killed in a fire started by a cigarette (it was his dad's cig, not someone elses).
I think I see where you're coming from, that the government shouldn't *force* anyone to inhale deadly chemicals in order to save but a few lives, but in my view, cigarettes (again, I remind you, they are completely unnecessary to the health and welfare and happiness of ANYONE) are already dangerous and full of deadly chemicals, so what I don't see is the logic in complaining about *more* deadly chemicals being added to cigs by the government. Why aren't you complaining about the tobacco companies adding dangerous chemicals to (already)deadly cigarettes to make you more addicted? It's actually the tobacco companies who are *forcing* you to inhale toxic substances, because their manipulations helped you to become addicted to a product that is deadly. (I am assuming from your remarks that you are a smoker, please forgive me if I'm wrong)
It seems funny to me that people seem to have no problem with the idea of private companies being allowed to make policies that affect their lives and their health (i.e. health insurance companies deciding who gets coverage and who doesn't, tobacco companies manipulating their product with chemicals to make it more addictive, television stations censoring programming, food companies adding hidden fat and salt and sugar to food items to make them more palatable ), but let THE GOVERNMENT get involved and there is an uproar.
Let me ask you this: do you think the safety mechanisms on handguns should be removed? I mean, gun owners should have the right to use thier guns any time they want, as quickly as they want. Sure, a kid might get hold of one sometime when a drunk gun owner passes out and the kid may get killed, but safeties slow down the operation of the weapon, and the gun user may need to use it really quickly sometime and could die if they couldn't get the safety catch off quickly enough, so why force all gun owners to endure this safety hazard in order to protect stupid people who don't know how to handle weapons? (I'm pretty sure there's a hole in that analogy somewhere, I'm looking forward to your finding it)
BTW, as an ex smoker, I DO know how hard it is to quit. I find it outrageous that a business is allowed to exist in this country that produces an addictive, dangerous product that sickens almost everyone who uses it. I think tobacco companies should be banished. If people want to smoke, they should have to grow their own tobacco and make their own cigarettes.
Okay, off my soap box now. Thanks for letting me participate!
Best wishes,
Alexis

Comment by Stump Parrish on January 1, 2010 at 3:50am

Happy New Year Alexis. All I can say is holy crap, an ex christian, ex smoker. Please don't tell me you have an ex husband or I'm disconnecting my computer and runnin for the hills. lol. As an ex smoker you know how hard it is to quit. Now we have the cigarette companies keeping the nicotine levels high and adding another untested chemical to them. This is a proven hazardous chemical, what hasn't been tested is the long term effects of inhaling of a chemical that they say is not safe to inhale. Only our Government and " some ex smokers (just kidding) could see the logic in, and approve of this. I for one don't know anyone who has died in a cigarette related fire. I knew a couple that have died from exposure to hazardous chemicals. I have to disagree with you on this chemical that is primarily being added to save the lives of stupid people, and a few innocent victims. I would venture to guess that most of these fires are from people getting drunk and falling asleep. Perhaps we should load up the liquor bottles with this chemical to stop people from drinking. If fast food is killing people well, lets improve that special sauce everyone likes. Considering how many people die each year in automobile accidents, why not make the air conditioning filters out of it. That way we could take care of the people that get drunk, drive a car, drop their cigarette and cause a crash. Ok i'm done lol, I don't understand the logic of killing alot of people to save a few accident victims. This reminds me of the logic christians use to explain killing people to show that they are pro-life.

Comment by Alexis G. on December 29, 2009 at 10:00pm

Hello Stump; forgive the lag in my response as I was away for a few days. My remarks about cigarettes should have been clearer. Cigarettes are a totally unnecessary item and sicken and/or kill a huge percent of the people who use them. If smokers are worried about the chemicals in cigarettes, then they shouldn't smoke them. And who knows, maybe if they start getting sicker earlier from this chemical, they will quit sooner.....
anyway, what I'm trying to say is: to the 55 million people who smoke, too bad. You don't need to smoke, and innocent people shouldn't die fiery deaths because you can't control your habit and don't want *more* dangerous chemicals in an already deadly product.
Ex smoker here : ) A little fired up. Cheers anyway, and call me Alexis, my friends all do.

Comment by Stump Parrish on December 27, 2009 at 6:08pm

Well said Comrade, excuse me while I think about where I left my ammunition. Never mind I'll just ask the lord.

Comment by Stump Parrish on December 27, 2009 at 2:21am

Mary, thank you for responding, I agree with some of what you say, "they are actually proud of remaining faithful to their father in heaven" I know this to be a fact and it is one thing I have a problem understanding. I can't figure out how anyone can look at a fence painted green and swear that (based on a human stating 2000 + years ago) all fences are red, therefore your fence must be red also. My purpose is not to make all fences green but to allow all to choose freely, what color their fence will be. Please excuse the childish analogy but it just hit me and I had to try it, lol.

"Many of them are actually quite intelligent, but they use their intelligence to suppress knowledge, as that works quite well toward making them feel safe and superior." This attitude and the resulting actions from it are an excellent example of why there must be separation of church and state. Too many government officials are pandering to the christian religion in order to remain in office, and the results of this are seen daily.

"Please forgive the nitpicking, but I had to remark about the cigarette analogy; of the 600 to 700 people killed yearly in fires started by cigarettes, how many do you think were family members in the house of the smoker in addition to the smokers themselves?" I feel that this statement reinforces my point. Lets suppose that 25% of those killed due to fires caused by unattended cigarette are inoccent victims. That brings the lives that deserve (not your word I know) being saved down to 150 to 175 a year. This is an even better arguement against risking the lives of 55 million Americans by adding an untested and dangerous chemical to cigarettes. This is the same chemical that automobile dealers were instructed to place in the engines of the cash for clunkers vehicles. It can seize and automobile engine in less than 5 minutes and yet those in our some of our state governments see no problem with forcing smoking Americans to spend the the rest of our lives inhaling it. Another problem with this is that my state of South Carolina has not passed this law, however enough states have that the cigarette makers have begun adding it to all cigarettes. I understand they are doing this as a cost saving measure as it would be impossible to manufacture a different product for each state. This is in direct opposition to the priciples of democracy, which I know, is not what America was formed as. We are serving the needs of less than 200 people a year at the possible expense of 55 million. There are already increases in smoking related illnesses in areas that had these additives first. Thanks for the feed back and your comments are always welcomed.

Comment by Johnny on December 27, 2009 at 12:19am

oh god... don't even get me started.... I am embarassed to be in the old beacon of the world's modern democracy that fell into the home of bigotry and backwards thinking.

I didn't even want to read your post. Just read the title cuz i thought it would depress me lol.

Read this if you want a laugh!

http://www.atheistnexus.org/profiles/blogs/everybody-must-check-thi...

Comment by Roy The Infidel on December 26, 2009 at 11:54pm

“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science.” - Charles Darwin

Comment by Alexis G. on December 26, 2009 at 11:26pm

Hello Stump, I read your post and would like to offer a few comments per your invitation. I'm an average person who likes to read many different blogs and get different points of view, so I appreciate your efforts to get yours out there. Hopefully you can truly reach people who may be on the fence or may be ready to come out of the dark, so I offer my remarks in that spirit.
While I agree with you that many people in this country seem to be proud of rejecting the kind of knowledge we think they ought to have, they are actually proud of remaining faithful to their father in heaven. Many of them are actually quite intelligent, but they use their intelligence to suppress knowledge, as that works quite well toward making them feel safe and superior.
Referring to people less intelligent or knowlegeable than you as *stupid* often only serves to rile them up and make them cling together and decide to become, ummmm, well, stupider. If you want to be taken seriously by them, I feel your best chance is to treat them with the same respect you want them to give you, whether you receive it from them or not, whether you feel it or not.
I believe that seeking knowledge *outside* the scriptures is sinful to many Christians and other believers. They are not taught that knowledge itself is bad, just any knowledge that contradicts what they believe.

Please forgive the nitpicking, but I had to remark about the cigarette analogy; of the 600 to 700 people killed yearly in fires started by cigarettes, how many do you think were family members in the house of the smoker in addition to the smokers themselves? This dangerous chemical may be saving the lives of people who have nothing to do with smoking and thus do not deserve to die at the hands of a careless smoker. Just my 2 cents....
Keep up your blogging!
Cheers

Comment by Stump Parrish on December 26, 2009 at 10:37pm

Sylvain, I agree with you about the lack of science and critical thinking courses in school is a major problem in this country. Our government schools are the primary reason for this. American students rank fairly close with students in Europe and Asia at the 4th or 5th grade level. Once these student reach the high school level American kids rank well below their European and Asian counterparts. Internationally our education system is a laughingstock with a well deservered reputation for mediocraty. There are many things America may be admired for, our educational system is not one of them. Most of the rest of the industrialized world is putting us to shame when it comes to education. I agree with Neal Boortz that the problem is our incorrectly name public schools. These schools are operated by the government, using government employees, on property owned or controlled by the government, using government funds. The only thing public about them are the students kept there by attendance laws passed by the government. Year after year our government schools graduate thousands of students completely unable to cope with, or understand, our culture, our history, our institutions, and what it takes not just to survive but to thrive in America. South Carolina consistantly ranks 48th or 49th in our educational system. Every year our school board superintendants rank as the highest paid people in my home town of Spartanburg. Our government is teaching generation after generation of student to live off of government handouts. They spend billions of dollars on new buildings and yet care not the least for the children whose lives they are forcing into a life of mediocrity. This is good for the government employees and yet you can see what it is doing to this country. Thanks for the feed back.

Heretic I would have to agree with you that humans have a need for acceptance and to carry this one step further I would say that the government has done a wonderful job of teaching children that ignorance, and blind obedience to the government is the best way to be accepted. This belief is reinforced in the majority of churches in this country. A thinking person is a danger to both organizations.

Emekan, you have hit on another problem with our government. The corporate control of our nation. This control is there due to the bank rolls these corporations have and are willing to spend buying our Senators and Representatives. The Unions also a major problem with the teachers union being the worst for the future of our country. The late Albert Shanker, former president of the powerful American Federation of Teachers made this quite clear when he was quoted as saying "when school-children start paying union dues is when he will start representing the interests of school children." I watched the Steelworkers Union destroy Pittsburgh with this same attitude and we are all watching the Teachers Unions destroy our children with it.

Carver, Thanks for the comment on my rant. I know no other way to approach a problem than head on. I long ago stopped worrying about other peoples feelings being hurt in a discussion. This in no way means that I am intentionally cruel or hurtful. I have strong opinions and no problem expressing them. My own lack of education is something I am thankful for, considering that I am in the south.. I quit worrying about my lack of spelling ability or understanding of proper grammer. Time and time again I see someone make a valid statement and the educated readers only comments are "learn how to spell". I was unlucky enough to finish my schooling in the south and that was beyond my control. What is not beyond my control is the ability to think things thru on my own. I have just begun to explore the subject of Critical Thinking and I am constantly suprised that this is a taboo subject among government school employees. I have yet to figure out why students are continually taught not to think in order to survive. Many a good thought is discarded due to the person that shared it. If they are of the Islamic faith, everything he or she says or thinks is wrong and must not only be ignored and discarded, it must be kept from every that thinks as we do. There is no room in religion for independent thoughts or questions. That most people don't see the problem with this line of reasoning is a major contributing factor in the decline of intelligence in this country.

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