To Meat Or Not To Meat? That is a loaded question!

This blog is on my Blogger page...no sense in copying

http://askaleister.blogspot.com/2014/05/to-meat-or-not-to-meatthat-...

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Comment by Aleister Gates on May 23, 2014 at 6:12pm

Also luara...please comment on my actual blog...that would be great :-P

Comment by Aleister Gates on May 23, 2014 at 5:28pm

And Laura...both of us can skip around the internet picking up data with coonfirmation bias..and we have proved nothing...because you know that I could just as easy find data out there the proves otherwise...ladeefreakin da...the point is..physiologically..our body is that of an omnivore...and you can THINK whatever you want...but you will not change that fact...we are physiologically omnivores...period

Comment by Aleister Gates on May 23, 2014 at 5:25pm

ok..semantics...we are evolved AS omnivores..not FROM omnivores

Comment by Luara on May 23, 2014 at 4:05pm

we are DESIGNED

We are not designed.  Humans evolved by natural selection.  We are living now longer than our ancestors, and avoiding the diseases of old age, like heart disease and cancer, matters a lot. 

Vegans are healthier only because they are health conscious....typical omnivores aren't as health conscious and more likely to not exercise... drink and/or smoke.... if you were to compare equally health conscious omnivores you'd find that omnivores are healthier.,,plain and simple.

Epidemiological studies routinely control for that kind of thing.  What is the evidence for your assertion?

Vegan diets, in particular, are almost completely devoid of certain nutrients that are crucial for physiological function. Several studies have shown that both vegetarians and vegans are prone to deficiencies in B12, calcium, iron, zinc, the long-chain fatty acids EPA & DHA, and fat-soluble vitamins like A & D."

The veganhealth.org link I gave mentions those nutrients.  However, vegan diets are NOT "almost completely devoid" in calcium, iron, zinc, precursors of EPA and DHA, or beta-carotene which is converted to vitamin A.  They do have very little B12 or vitamin D.  Vegans do need to take B12.  Vegan foods don't have much vitamin D, except for shiitake mushrooms :) - and processed food like cereals which have added vitamin D.  Of course people also get vitamin D from the sun. 

You can easily dig up anti-vegan opinions online.  But why should anyone take Chris Kresser's word for it?  Not only does he say things that are wrong, his training is as an acupuncturist, and in various flavors of alternative medicine. He does not have any scientific or medical background.  Jack Norris, who runs the veganhealth.org site, is a dietician, with scientific training in nutrition, who cites mulltiple research studies supporting what he says. 

Algae make DHA, and there are vegan EPA/DHA supplements made from algae.  If you don't care about being vegan down to such details - I don't - you can take fish oil supplements. 

From a paper Health Effects of Vegan Diets:

Vegan diets are usually higher in dietary fiber, magnesium, folic acid, vitamins C and E, iron, and phytochemicals, and they tend to be lower in calories, saturated fat and cholesterol, long-chain n–3 (omega-3) fatty acids, vitamin D, calcium, zinc, and vitamin B-12). In general, vegetarians typically enjoy a lower risk of cardiovascular disease (CVD), obesity, type 2 diabetes, and some cancers. A vegan diet appears to be useful for increasing the intake of protective nutrients and phytochemicals and for minimizing the intake of dietary factors implicated in several chronic diseases. In a recent report, different plant food groups were rated with respect to their metabolic-epidemiologic evidence for influencing chronic disease reduction. According to the evidence criteria of the World Health Organization and Food and Agriculture Organization (WHO/FAO), cancer risk reduction associated with a high intake of fruit and vegetables was assessed as probable or possible, risk of CVD reduction as convincing, whereas lower risk of osteoporosis was assessed as probable. The evidence for a risk-reducing effect of consuming whole grains was assessed as possible for colorectal cancer and probable for type 2 diabetes  and CVD. The evidence for a risk-reducing effect of consuming nuts was assessed as probable for CVD.

Red meat has been associated with health risks. According to an epidemiological study,

After adjusting for other risk factors, the researchers calculated that 1 additional serving per day of unprocessed red meat over the course of the study raised the risk of total mortality by 13%. An extra serving of processed red meat (such as bacon, hot dogs, sausage and salami) raised the risk by 20%. ... When the researchers accounted for known risk factors in red meat—like saturated fat, dietary cholesterol and iron—they still couldn't account for all of the risk associated with eating red meat.

Comment by Aleister Gates on May 23, 2014 at 2:36pm

I did not specify that we evolved as omnivores...I said that we ARE omnivores...in every physiological sense of the word..we ARE omnivores...we are DESIGNED...physiologically...to eat both meat and vegetable....and needing to buy B12 supplements is still depending on a manufacturer to provide you with it...what are you going to do should a time ever come that you cannot get them? Eat dirt?

  Vegans are healthier only because they are health conscious....typical omnivores aren't as health conscious and more likely to not exercise... drink and/or smoke.... if you were to compare equally health conscious omnivores you'd find that omnivores are healthier.,,plain and simple.  

 

"Plant-based diets emphasize vegetables, which are quite nutrient dense, and fruits, which are somewhat nutrient dense. However, they also typically include large amounts of cereal grains (refined and unrefined) and legumes, both of which are low in bioavailable nutrients and high in anti-nutrients such as phytate, and they eschew organ meats, meats, fish and shellfish, which are among the most nutrient-dense foods you can eat. (1)

Vegan diets, in particular, are almost completely devoid of certain nutrients that are crucial for physiological function. Several studies have shown that both vegetarians and vegans are prone to deficiencies in B12, calcium, iron, zinc, the long-chain fatty acids EPA & DHA, and fat-soluble vitamins like A & D." from ChrisKresser.com 

And vegans run the risk of many deficiencies ..not just B12...without taking supplements...and vegans are great for the vitamin industry..they have a great interest in promoting veganism. All that said...haha...do what you want...its only my opinion..as I have said...I am not an expert...but I am an omnivore..that cannot be denied..if you need to justify your vegan diet..so be it...but don't try to imply that you are an herbivore...

Comment by Luara on May 23, 2014 at 5:21am

Also, it's better to avoid organic fruits and vegetables if money is tight. 

They may sometimes have more of some nutrients, but they cost a lot more.  It's much better for one's health to spend food-money to buy more of the conventionally-raised fruits and vegetables, and actually get the recommended 5 a day fruits&veg's. 

Actually I've heard that 9-a-day of fruits and vegetables is better, but few people even get 5 a day. 

Comment by Luara on May 23, 2014 at 3:42am

As I said, I agree that we evolved as omnivores.  However, our ancestors in most places at most times, ate meat as an occasional treat.  Your "one-fifth meat" is much more than an occasional treat. 

People can be very healthy on a vegan diet, and it doesn't have to cost a lot and it doesn't require a lot of delicate maneuvering to get the necessary nutrients.  Most people eat much fewer than the 5-a-day recommended fruits and vegetables, and it's bad for their health. For health, you should be eating plenty of fruits and vegetables anyway. 

The veganhealth.org site gives science-based recommendations about supplements that vegans may need.  They do not include B vitamins except for B12.   The supplements are very inexpensive. 

Vegans are actually healthier than meat-eaters, in many ways.  According to a medical website,

Eating animal fats and proteins has been shown in studies to raise a person's risk of developing cancer, diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis, hypertension, heart disease, and a number of other illnesses and conditions.

Vegans also have a lower BMI on average.  This link gives many references.

Comment by Aleister Gates on May 22, 2014 at 3:40pm

lmao @ Michael

Comment by Michael Penn on May 22, 2014 at 3:27pm

Keep in mind that most theists believe that in a future time, after the rupture and in a new earth setting, lions and tigers will eat straw. I'm not sure how they can tell you this and keep a straight face. It appears that "nature" was also affected by the fall of man. LOL  Anyone look at these animal's teeth and mouths? ROTFLMAO here!

Comment by Aleister Gates on May 22, 2014 at 2:08pm

Lets agree on this Laura...like she says in the video...we ARE omnivores...meaning..we can eat BOTH meat and vegetable...but in order to be healthy and eat nothing but vegetables..(and as most would say..they should be organic as those are the richest in nutrition) a lot of us would go broke..eating the right vegetables in the right amount and providing a daily supply of  man-made B vitamins that are NOT found in vegetables is not a chap alternative to an omnivorous diet..so lets just sday...like I did in the blog...and like you mentioned in your response..a diet of small amounts of meat and large portions of vegetables is ideal for the human physiology...but that is still OMNIVOROUS...also like to mention...all but the tiniest of great apes are actually omnovorous

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