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Comment by Jedi Wanderer on March 12, 2011 at 6:02am

Yeah that could be a really good idea. Take them to a Jewish temple, take them to a mosque, and ask them what purpose they think all that ritual serves. Would a god really need us to go through certain motions over and over again? Well, they'll figure it out. And you are right on, it IS truly self-delusional to be able to see what makes everyone else's beliefs wrong but to be unable to do that with your own beliefs. Geez, how else do you grow as a person?

 

You have done the right thing. And you make a deep point about the difference between faith and hope. I think the difference is that while faith is the willingness to take a desire and turn it into something that one doesn't doubt really will come true, hope is optimism but without the baseless absolute certainty. There is nothing wrong with optimism, its actually a great thing to have, so long as you're not delusional about your expectations. So hope seems to be a considered optimism, whereas faith is runaway, overly-excited optimism which refuses to acknowledge reality.

Comment by Dr. Cowboy on March 11, 2011 at 8:39pm

They're 6 and 10.  Interestingly enough the 6 year old seems almost impervious to all of this nonsense.  He seems surprisingly strong minded.  I really don't have very many worries about him.  He'll come out of this just fine.  It's my 10 year old I worry about.  He has, to some degree bought into it all.  He's angry at me for forcing him to go to school, and I simply can't explain to him why he needs to go.  It's not the sort of thing you understand at 10, but it doesn't stop him from being angry at me.  He's actually excelling in school, he went from being behind in math to being the only child to get 100% on the last test.  Neither my wife nor my son seem to understand that homeschooling is why he was behind in the first place and there's no excuse for a child that smart to have been behind.  None.  It infuriates me.  

I actually heard an interesting idea from a recent Chariots of Iron.  Somebody wrote an e-mail that was in a similar situation to me, and their response was: take the kids to church.  Lots of churches.  All kinds of different churches.  Islam, Christian, Hindu, whatever and all the denominations in between.  It's like a class in comparative religion on steroids.  I'm giving it serious thought.  It still cracks me up how my religious friends can see how nuts my wife's religion is and spot all the insanity, but they can't see it in their own.  

 

As badly as this has gone for me I know in the long run I've done the right thing.  She may or may not come to her senses someday, and she may or may not realize what she's done.  Honestly I no longer care.  I'm focused on my children and that's why I've done this.  that's what I'm enduring all of this for.  Jesus ain't got nuthin' on me.  I'm still hoping for custody, but let's be honest, the judicial system is pretty sexist when it comes to child custody.  I'm still finally getting to be the kind of dad I've always wanted to be and never really could.  I have hope that this will all turn out ok.  I suppose that's dangerously close to "faith", but there it is.

Comment by 1311 on March 11, 2011 at 8:59am

And Dr. Cowboy, about that link....I agree with you. It's freaking scary! And your response to it was so right on!

Comment by 1311 on March 11, 2011 at 8:56am

I am really so sorry that your marriage is ending. I commend you big time for the courage to even think about taking that first step which was filing for divorce. You did it because you can't stand living with someone who is so far gone in deception but also for the sake of protecting your kids.

Living with someone who's in a state of deception BUT who chooses to respect your beliefs and understands that there needs to be some kind of compromise that you both can agree on in raising your kids in the faith or lack of faith is one thing. But being in that state of deception and intolerant of YOUR beliefs and posing only her beliefs on your children, that is something else. And that is wrong!

Dr. Cowboy, I believe you are doing the right thing. Not only for yourself but for your kids as well. Why should you and your kids have to live in this hell inflicted by her? That is no way to live or breathe. You've taken that step to break free, even though it hurts, and finally breathe again.

When the custody battle begins they better award you equal custody. And remember, with equal custody you as their father can teach them whatever you want. You as their father can show them the difference between faith and reason, truth and lies, Knowledge and deception. They need to learn to think for themselves, to ask questions. Questioning everything about the world around them is key for them to see the truth and reason with their own eyes.

And just like Wanderer said, you can always talk to us. We totally get it. We really do. Hang in there buddy.

Comment by Jedi Wanderer on March 11, 2011 at 6:43am

Ouch, homeschooling could destroy your kids minds. I suppose that is the equivalent of the madrassa. What we all want to know is how old your kids are, how resistant they are to this indoctrination, how are they coping, what does it look like they believe, etc. You are going to suffer, and it sucks and it shouldn't have turned out this way for you, but it would be a still greater tragedy if your children suffer, which of course they will. We just want to know how much, and if there is anything we can do to help. Maybe you should get them on here to talk to a few of us, if they are old enough to understand any of it. I'd start talking to them about the difference between reason and faith, and the importance of thinking for yourself and finding evidence and reasons to support your beliefs. Its not so much a question of what they believe right now so much as it is about how they go about forming their beliefs. That should be lesson #1.

Comment by Dr. Cowboy on March 10, 2011 at 10:13pm

And @1311, that link is freakin' scary too.  Damn!  What's next? Criminalization of masturbation?  You're destroying potential life, right?

Comment by Dr. Cowboy on March 10, 2011 at 10:01pm

thanks everybody.  The truth is I've tried to reason with her but to no avail.  We've all tried to reason with fundamentalists, it just doesn't work.  I had to try anyway though.  She's not the same woman I married.  About 10 years ago she joined a Christian cult and got me to join as well.  We apparently had very different recovery paths.  Mine led me here.  Hers led her to this.  She's gotten involved with this group over the past 1-2 years.  I knew she was religious, but it took me a while to uncover the depth of insanity she had delved too.  

I became aware that I had no real power to protect my children from this as long as we remained married.  I filed for divorce last December.   Unfortunately the judge mostly sided with her giving her the house, the kids, and a really nice income taken directly out of mine.  I got to move in with my parents but on the bright side the judge did order that the kids remain in school, so at least for the near future I've managed to put an end to this Homeschooling nonsense.  Little victories, I suppose, but damn what a cost.

Comment by Monica S. on March 10, 2011 at 3:31pm

First, I am very sorry.

Second, dear sweet isis that is some insane stuff right there. But, sadly enough, many believers believe that, I am sad to say(former believer here). That being said, the only thing I can think of is trying to talk to her in a rational(I know..I know) way. I guess, even placing her "beliefs" against the facts of life/nature/what have you. How did you two end up meeting?

Comment by Becky Coats on March 10, 2011 at 2:04pm

Wow, that's hard.  My ex-husband is "agnostic" and supports the kids developing open minds, being free thinkers, but is afraid I'm going to force my beliefs (or lack of belief) down their throats.  I try to tell him I just want them to be free to weigh facts and search for truth on their own, but he feels my saying there is no "god" means they will lose the comfort of feeling there is a plan or purpose out there for them.  I feel the lack of a plan is freeing, but he worries they will feel scared.  I see them just being more and more curious, not afraid.  The belief in a "good" supernatural energy opens kids up to the idea of a balancing "bad" energy and actually is frightening.  I think your kids might be frightened by her ideology.   Good you are trying to protect them.

Comment by 1311 on March 10, 2011 at 1:44pm

I agree with both Angie and Wanderer. I do feel for you. It's a really tough situation. Even harder is trying to make someone who is completely blind and ignorant of the truth to actually see the truth, know what I mean?

How old are your kids?

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