Comment

Comment by MoshingTick on January 9, 2011 at 1:37am

That's why people invent God, to give themselves purpose. And in lieu of God, people have faith in something, anything to give themselves a reason for being here. 

I beg to differ. I believe the only reason that man created gods was due to our lack of understanding of how the natural world worked. As time progressed, and man's knowledge grew, the less and less we need the notion of a god (or gods) to fill our lives. Look at all discoveries that science has made and how the gap for the argument of god continues to shrink. Sometime in the distant future, I do believe that only a few small cults will remain in a desperate measure to preserve old traditions.

 

It's the same reason you want a relationship: someone who loves you is a validation of your existence, and people cling to anything that validates their existence.

 

Dude, I don't need another human to validate my existence. I need another human because it fulfills my social needs. You seem to be over analyzing this whole thing and ignoring the fact that humans are products of their own biology. Whether you care to recognize this fact or not, human beings are social creatures. I totally agree with Glens recent statement. You're over philosophizing this whole ordeal. :\

 

I think at this point all I can say is that we are going to have to agree to disagree.

Comment by Glen Rosenberg on January 6, 2011 at 7:20pm

John your explanation is too philosophical-not enough credit given to our innate biological nature. And I think Gods were invented not to give purpose but to make the universe intelligible and gods are perpetuated for power and control.

But thats just me. I could be wrong.

Comment by John Camilli on January 6, 2011 at 5:57pm

You hit on the source of man's woes here, Tick. If we thought we were worthless, we wouldn't have motivation toward anything. That's why people invent God, to give themselves purpose. And in lieu of God, people have faith in something, anything to give themselves a reason for being here. But I suspect that were are not here for anything in particular, we are just here. We are an accident, and life hurts, so we invent reasons for it.

 

It's the same reason you want a relationship: someone who loves you is a validation of your existence, and people cling to anything that validates their existence. I have had the same issue. I haven't been in a relationship for years and it was one of the biggest sources of angst for me until I admitted to myself that even someone else loving me was not truly a validation of my existence; that there wasn't really anything that could validate it. There isn't anything for humans to cling to really that tells them 'this is why your here. This is what makes it worthwhile.' It's why we always want something until we have it, because we keep convincing ourselves that this is what I'm all about, until we get it and realize we were wrong. Some people never get to the point where they realize they were wrong because they keep themselves so busy searching for that validation. It's why life is so busy: people can't slow down or they would have time to think, and they would hate existence, and people who've done that do not survive well.

 

And the flipside of all this is, if we aren't here for anything in particular, then it's impossible to make mistakes. It's impossible to do anything wrong if you don't know what is right. The things that make your life painful are not wrong, they are just painful. Pain is not bad, it just exists. Pleasure is not good, it just exists too. And there are plenty of examples I could give of painful things being beneficial, and pleasurable things that do harm, so we can't use pleasure and pain as a measure of values.

 

The 20% of things you don't like about yourself are things you've decided are bad. No one else can make that decision for you, so in order to change it, you can simply change the way you think about it. People aren't born with pleasurable experiences any more than they are born with trauma, so if you look at it that way then neither state is "natural." Frankly, I don't understand when people say that something is unnatural. If it exists, it must be in nature, hence it must be natural.

Comment by MoshingTick on January 5, 2011 at 11:58pm

@John

Inorder to be okay with yourself, you must give up the idea ofcontrolling and changing yourself; of shaping and molding yourself tothe whims of others, or the whims of yourself.

 

Whims? What whims? I don't see these faults of mine being whims,rather setbacks. I do not make it a point to randomly change mybehavior because the moment suits me either. I have a certain set of characteristics that have around 80% of the time that I have nodesire to change because I'm content with them, but the remainder 20% is what needs correcting and causing me the most harm. It isn't healthy for a human being to feel like they are worthless. What is that going to help them accomplish in life? If they feel down or depressed all the time there will be no motivation for them to go and experience anything in life.

 

We seek to learn as much as we can in order to conquer this aspect of reality, but it cannot be conquered. The truth is, we are outof control. Out of our control, and out of the control of others.

Maybe some do but not everyone seeks to control 100% of their lives or environment. That is an impossibility because random events can and do occur which disrupt routines that people establish (to that end I do agree with you). All one needs to do is modify their reactions inorder to produce an outcome that works to their favor or benefit or lessens possible negative outcomes. We can control things but it has it's limitations. But just because we can't control every aspect to our lives, that doesn't mean we give up attempting to build up some structure to help guide events to favorable outcomes.

 

By the way, I'd argue heavily that people are out of control of others. Just look at certain religious denominations and how their authority figures manipulate and influence their behaviors, beliefs, and actions.

 

Energy you spend on changing yourself is energy better spent being yourself.

 

I'm not content living a life in misery. And, while they are rare, I<i>hate</i> it when I have PTSD moments like I had that day. That is NOT NORMAL. People aren't born with traumatized experiences. The trauma has to be inflicted at some point in their lives in order to alter their mental state. You can't sit there and tell me that soldiers who come back from intense combat should just embrace their suffering and traumatic experiences and expect these people to integrate into life back in the 'normal' world again without problems.

 

Dowhat you like to do with life, and to fictional hell with anyone whohas a problem with it. If they are not okay with you, then they arenot okay with reality, and are living in a dream that you onlyempower with your acknowledgement

 

I couldn't care less what people think of me now. I did years ago as achild and young adult because I was told that my parent's where my authority figures and that I was to love and respect them no matter what (as per my religious upbringing). Honor they mother and father.Yeah I tried all that, and I still always fell short of their demands. Even as an adult, my mother does a good job trying to makeme feel guilty. Just as an example: a few weeks ago, she and I and three more relatives were frosting Christmas cookies at my grandmas house. Mom had to undergo a procedure to get a mass removed in her head the week after Christmas. As a woman of faith, she was not happy with my atheism in the slightest. She looked at me and asked,“How can I take any comfort knowing that you won't be praying for me?”

 

Anymore, I just get mad. She still tries to manipulate my feelings and to adegree she wins. But right now I'm more concerned about other baggage that I need to dump.

 

Stoptrying to be happy. There is no happiness, there is only now, and theway you feel about now. Stop worrying about the future and the past;they are both already determined, and it is only your awareness ofthem that changes.

 

I'm calling BS here. How can you state in one paragraph that we are controlled by our chemistry, which monitors our emotional fluctuations, then turn around and claim there is no happiness? Happiness has many different definitions, one of which falls underthe attachment of positive emotions that humans feel. It does exist whether or not you've experienced that.

 

Embraceyour pain, for it is an experience that is unique; that cannot andwill not be had by any other, ever, and that will be a badge of honorto you when humanity has become a hu-mechanism.

 

I'm not even sure what you mean in that human beings are transcending or achieving a hu-mechanism state. I am unfamiliar with this belief yo uhold. I cannot foresee the human race ever disconnecting from their negative emotional states; there were always be a sense of loss,grief, sadness, etc. Even if dying became a thing of the past or all diseases were cured or that there was no poverty in the world. To think that mankind will only walk in a state of perpetual bliss is incredibly unrealistic.

 

By the way, anything with a functioning brain and physical chemistry has the means to experience pain in it's own way ergo: pain is not unique. Animals feel pain, just like us people. Even plants have shown to respond to pain even though the mechanism it uses differs from our own.

 

@Cliff

Boy,don't I wish I could start over. I've tried putting my house on the market once and didn't get any bites, so I'm sort of stuck right now until the housing market makes a rebound. I would love to move though. I've had my eyes focused on the North West for sometime.

 

@Glen

Sending an emissary is a great idea! If only just to see if he's still interested. Then I can go from there. Thank you for the advice and encouragement!

 

It's funny because you're not the first person to tell me that I have aknack for writing. I've wanted to produce a few books and publish them but I want to be able to illustrate them too. Time just seems like such a short commodity these days. :P

 

@Earther

I've been trying to do that for years. I've read various things I can tryin order to start changing how I feel about myself but all it takes is one trigger and it unravels everything. It's highly annoying and when this happens I just become extraordinarily frustrated.

 

As far as my beliefs go, I'm an atheist and an anti-theist. Eventually I'll put a blog up about myself with more details about my deconversion and coming out, but that might be in a few days. Everytime I start typing something up here for the site, I get sidetracked. :) Nice to see a fellow artist on here! I'll check out your blog page and see if you have a gallery link to check out your work!

 

@James

I'm not sure just how I plan on beating this. I've been looking around town for some councilors to assist me with this process, but thus far it's hard finding one that doesn't have a background in Christianityor that doesn't rely on woo practices. It's getting a little annoying but I think if I keep digging I'll find someone.

 

And I don't mind continuing the discussion at all! It feels nice to be able to communicate with others who have faced their trails and provide encouragement. I've been slogging through this on my own for so long that I just get so frustrated.

 

I'll be trying to relax! Maybe kick back with a beer and jot some things down to see what I've done that has and hasn't worked.

Comment by MoshingTick on January 4, 2011 at 11:23pm

 

@James Finnie

If you have this low opinion of yourself then why would anyone else haveany other opinion? Look at what you project, if it is negative or unlikable and you want to change it then you need to find a way to change it.

 

About the only thing that I honestly project, that I noticed at any rate, is the fact that I'm extremely introverted and I typically avoid social settings like the plague. And by social settings I don't mean the occasional coffee shop visit or small friend get-togethers. I'm talking about giant gatherings of people like night clubs, conventions, things of that nature. If I know I will be interacting with a large group of people, I tend to retreat and not say much. I've always been extremely shy when it comes to meeting new people. And I've always been terrified of saying something so flipping stupid that it warps people's perception of me and I don't want to look like I'm unintelligent. It's something that I've adhered to since I was achild. Yeah yeah, everyone's said stupid stuff. I know the drill. But I've always believed that if people hear me say dumb things they will judge me and not want anything to do with me because I'm a screw up.

 

When I do have to interact with others, what I will not do is slouch,shove my hands in my pockets, and act like I don't want to be there. I will still try and make a concerted effort to listen to otherpeople or at least mingle in with certain groups to still hear what they have to say. It's just extremely uncomfortable for me and Idon't feel like I belong in that setting nor that I feel welcome. Ialso don't try and wear clothing that makes me look frumpy either. Imake an effort to look good (though I have my days where I just don't give a damn :P ).

 

I'm happy to hear that you had a lot of success in changing your own life around. Those roads are never easy as am all too aware with how I've struggled to get through mine. It's like a snake or crab shedding it's skin in order to grow into it's new body. It's just taking me so long to shed the skin. Some parts just keep sticking and I think that in the end I will need help from someone like a therapist to be fully rid of it.

 

I already stated that even when I was at my thinnest (130 pounds I think that's roughly 9 stones) I was criticized for being too fat by my own family members. How does one foster a healthy sense of worthwhen, even when trying your hardest, your best is never enough to the people who you think should love and support you? I grew up believingthat criticism was something that was normal and to think of anything positive was foreign. Any compliments I received for my appearance I didn't appreciate because in my warped mind I believed that was alie. It had been reenforced to me over and over that I wasn't pretty enough, skinny enough, and subsequently that the opposite sex would never find me attractive. Anyway, it's moot point droning on about that. Suffice to say I have let myself go and at one point was almost tipping 200 pounds. I have already made changes to loose weight and thus far I'm down 25 pounds. I plan on losing more until I reach around 140 or at least until my body plateaus. Which ever happens first.

 

I really hope you take the time to seriously look at how you can make your life better. Look at what makes you happy. Stop searching forexternal happiness and start within because then you will shine andthe love will find you.

I also hope you appreciate my honesty and find a way to look at thingswith that same honesty

I don't mind the honesty at all, in fact I appreciate it. I should have added much more to my initial post because there have been many things that I've done over the years to change myself into a better person (and HAVE been successful with). Like I mentioned earlier, it's those last major skin flakes that won't unhinge themselves from me that I have the worst problem with.

@Johnand @everyone else

 Sorryto have to make you wait again, but I will definitely reply back tomorrow. A good friend of mine that I haven't spoken to in a long while called me while I was writing up my response to James and we ended up talking about a lot of things (this blog and my struggles included). Right now I'm just drained. Again, I apologize for the delay! I don't like sitting on these things too long myself.

Comment by Earther on January 4, 2011 at 8:41pm

Start loving yourself, when you get good at it you will learn how you can have others in your life.  Another skill you may need is how to seek your own opinion instead of the one your parents planted in your head.  You sound interesting to me, I am not sure what your beliefs are concerning your comments on your spiritual search and art.  I am an artist myself. 

Comment by John Camilli on January 4, 2011 at 1:30pm

lol, no pressure. I was messin with you a little.

Comment by MoshingTick on January 4, 2011 at 11:43am

@john This is just a quick reply via my phone, but please bear with me. I wasn't expecting this many responses and I'm currently at work so I cannot access social sites without getting into trouble. I'll be replying to everyone when I get home and have time to construct indepth replies.

Comment by John Camilli on January 4, 2011 at 11:12am

y'know, for needing people to talk to, you sure aren't very talkative. What's your opinion on all of this. I'm curious.

Comment by John Camilli on January 4, 2011 at 11:11am

Well, that was certainly a sadistic atitude to take, Glenn. lol. I'm not advocating that you should hate life or yourself, or anything negative at all. This is what I mean about people labeling me too, Tick. "Pessimism" is a common label for me, as is being "argumentative," yet I am quite confident that a lie detector would confirm that I am not unhappy, nor do I hate life. I simply do not have expectations for it.

 

Talk to the boy, if that's what you want, but don't expect anything from it. It is an experience, whatever happens, and should be taken at face value whether it turns out the way you want or not. If you don't want it to turn out a particular way, you can't be disappointed. Neither can you be elated, of course, but that is the trade off of "all things in moderation." Seek the in between, Tick, not this undulating rollercoaster of a life that most people pretend is happiness. For any moment of joy, there must be a corresponding moment of loss, or we would not know to compare the other as "better."

 

People who live that way spend huge amounts of energy ignoring and overlooking the parts of their lives they don't like. They focus RELIGIOUSLY on their positive, but their negative is still there, and they are living in a false reality to claim it is not. I would contend that I live more of my life than most people do because I do not ignore any part of it. Because I live in the moment and do not feel I deserve anything, nor that I have any rights. Whatever happens happens. I like to say 'it is what it is, until it's something else,' and that 'we all spend our time equally here.' There is no preferable outcome for life unless you decide there is, and if your decision of what should does not line up with what is, you will be disappointed or elated. Either way, you are creating suspense and relying on the facade of a greater moment to get you through this one. That is the lie most people live in. Don't do that to yourself. Live now; live in the moment. It's all you get.

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