"...But if you want everlasting life, that’s a completely different issue, and that’s where Christianity is unique. Almost all religions are what are called “works righteousness” religions. By that I mean they maintain that you have to do something to merit salvation (eternal life). However, Christianity says that we can’t do that because we are criminals in God’s eyes, who have seriously violated His Law. That means that anything we try and do to please God (fasting, praying, etc.) are not seen by Him as good works, but as detestable attempts to bribe the Judge of the Universe. The only thing that can save any of us from the terrible consequences of violating His Law, is His love and mercy. God Himself provided a Savior for the entire world..." Ray Comfort Creationist Examiner

Wow this stuff is gold. We are criminals in God's eyes. All of us. Newborn babies taking their first breath are criminals.

I'm astonished that anyone would actively want to take part in a religion so sadistic, or that anyone who believed this would want to bring children into the world.

Views: 6

Tags: Comfort, Ray, atheism, atheist, religion


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Comment by Rosemary LYNDALL WEMM on February 19, 2009 at 11:03am
Thanks, Felch. What a horrifically loony bunch. I shudder.
Comment by Фелч Гроган on February 19, 2009 at 8:34am
The in utero sin crowd are the loopiest of the loopy - I suspect they are heavily luddite on top and technology is evil, hence the difficulty in finding info on them as they probably don't touch computers. Also, they are pariahs and blasphemers to even the other nutjob xtian extremists. But they do exist and the world is sadder for it.

It's strange how letting go of religion meant that suddenly I could see a lot more of its workings.

Welcome to the light.
Comment by Kristine Robinson on February 19, 2009 at 7:30am
Thank you for the links, Felch, they were very informative. A year ago I'd never even have thought of looking for any of this. It's strange how letting go of religion meant that suddenly I could see a lot more of its workings.

I find the modes of thought that lead people to contemplate these things terribly disturbing. Particularly the Elisha's Mantle stuff on prenatal wounding... people have enough to carry without adding the burden of having to control their own thought processes whilst pregnant.
Comment by Фелч Гроган on February 19, 2009 at 4:16am
Here you go. Can't find the article I originally read, but this will do.


Real example of xtian cult beliefs -


Word of Faith Fellowship

"They are blasted to get rid of any demons that could have been loosed in the hospital or in the process," said Wien, about the church teaching that claims that sins of mothers are passed to the children in the womb.


Babblings from Elisha's Mantle

Prenatal Wounds and Sins

As we mature, we interpret experiences with our mind; but, before we have developed intellect with which to reason, we have a spirit within us. As we begin to form within the womb, that breath from God which is the core of our essence begins to respond sensitively to the world around it, thus, we are able to be wounded and to sin in response to hurts
received in the womb.

As the right-to-choose movement grows, it is important to understand the truth about God given life, spiritual as well as physical within the womb. This lesson presents both the scriptural base and modem research supporting our belief that unborn children are vested with a personal spirit at conception, and are able to sense and understand the nature of the world around them; and thus capable of sin.


Then there is the perverse practice of baptising the still born - Why if they haven't sinned ?

And not to spare Buddhists - the backwater south east Asian type. You don't need to feel sorry for crippled children. They are born that way because they are full of sin from a past life. Stuff you won't hear at your local metroplitan Buddhists temples that thrive on yuppie culture (bad for business). But its authentic.

There's Rule 34 for the internet - If it exists, there is porn of it. There is a corresponding rule for religion - no matter how stupid, insane or vile it is, someone somewhere believes in a god that states it as law and demands it.
Comment by Фелч Гроган on February 19, 2009 at 1:44am
Rosemary, re-read what I said. "Though this mob only appear to be debating the topic"...

I'm not saying they are the ones preaching it, though it is nauseating that they even need to discuss whether it is a valid view at all.

It was the handiest link I had that this type of thinking actually does happen.

That said, I have seen in utero sinning seriously discussed by the lunatic fringe of theism and there are people who do believe this crap. You're gonna make me find it aren't you ?
I'll see what I can dig up for you.
Comment by Rosemary LYNDALL WEMM on February 19, 2009 at 1:32am
Hey Felch, be fair. That's not what was said. Read the article again. The author quotes two contradictory prophets on the subject. Then says that Jesus did not agree with either or them.

Of course, the story is not a good argument for the inerrancy of the Bible. Remember that mainstream (especially non-US Christians) don't believe that anyway.
Comment by Buffy on February 19, 2009 at 12:32am
That's really screwed up. But then again when you believe in a sadist who sent himself to be brutally killed to save you from himself, pretty much anything goes.
Comment by Фелч Гроган on February 18, 2009 at 8:00pm
Hey, some of them don't stop at just birth. There are lunatics that believe in sins commited in the womb -

Depending on who you followed, birth defects were therefore either caused by the sins of your ancestors, or by your own sins committed in the womb before birth.

Though this mob only appear to be debating the topic (the fact that they even have to do this is disturbing enough), I have run across genuine in utero sinning before and it does have a core of genuine believers.
Comment by cj the cynic on February 18, 2009 at 7:51pm
He's so masochistic, it's almost kinky. Almost.

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