Obama signs the NDAA and ends American Democracy: RIP America (1776-2011)

I had such high hopes for this man when I voted for him. I was so tired of seeing white men in office, even being white myself, that I wanted him to show people that they needn't conform to societal stereotypes. But he was a Trojan horse, and has now done more harm to this country than anyone President before him. I can no longer call him my president, as he has sold me into bondage. He has transformed the home of the free into a military dictatorship. It is now perfectly legal for him to come arrest me for even saying this; to lock me up without charge, detain me without recourse to trial or access to an attourney, even torture and assassinate me. And you as well, for reading this. Welcome to the rise of tyranny, my friends. I encourage you to disavow the rogue government and establish your own communal governments and police forces. No one in Washington, or commanded by them is any longer 'for the people, by the people.'

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Comment by Rob van Senten on January 3, 2012 at 10:48am

Seriously dude, you are saying that people that do not share your fears deserve to be imprisoned, for a fucking thought crime. How 1984 can it get?

Comment by John Camilli on January 3, 2012 at 10:27am

Heh, I don't mean that I would put you there, but if someone else puts you there you deserve it for not paying attention to the fact that they were gearing up to do it. There are empirically verified reports of more than 60 internment camps around the US, many of which are being revamped and outfitted for civilian imprisonment. The National guard posted on their website that they are looking to hire a domestic internment specialist, and they have also been polling soldiers on their willingness to fire on American citizens if ordered to do so. You think they're doing all that as a "fire drill?" If you can hear that kind of stuff and still say 'tell me when it gets real,' then you deserve what you get. I'm doing what I can by trying to warn people about what's going on. The convention on the NDAA was kept private from the public, and Obama signed it on new year's eve to keep it under the radar. There's a reason for all that. They're counting on people to be ignorant and apathetic about it until someone actually comes busting through your door. At that point, there's nothing you can do. The only chance you have to do something about it is passing you bye, and you're just sitting there waving and laughing.

 

John, I haven't paid my taxes for over a year, and I won't be doing it any time soon. I'm curious what part of my words you found hyperbolic.

Comment by Glen Rosenberg on January 3, 2012 at 10:09am

Our democracy needs people like John Camilli. WATCHDOGS-even if some of his claims are exxagerated. It is with good reason that the first amendment of the constitution is interpreted to give the strongest protection to political speech. Our second president, John Adams, used the newly enacted alien and sedition acts to imprison people who spoke against him and to close newspapers. If this precedent had trended for long the notion of a democracy would have been laughable. Overturned under Jefferson.

Furthermore we have seen US citizens rally wildly in favor of the KKK. We have seen tremendous support of fascism with father Coughlin and the german american bund. In turn our government imprisoned Japanese citizens during the second world war even though there was no instance of disloyal Japanese american soldiers as far as I know.

In the aftermath of 9/11 it was not exactly safe to be an Arab american. And we see the government overreact as well. So we clearly have a formula for civil rights disaster. All we need to see is a brief period of terrorist attacks especially if they come at a time of economic instability.

Comment by Rob van Senten on January 3, 2012 at 7:05am

"Some of you guys deserve to be in the prison camps being built around this country."


It's a good thing then that you do not have this kind of power, you want to arrest people for thought crimes? Are you sure that you are no worse then the "evil" that you're fighting?

You are obviously concerned about the future of your (not mine) country so perhaps it would be a good idea to support the ACLU and to attempt to do something constructive about this, you seem to be quite angry about the subject, which is fine, but you're directing it to the wrong people.

Comment by John Camilli on January 3, 2012 at 4:45am

Some of you guys deserve to be in the prison camps being built around this country.

 

When Franklin emerged from the Constitutional Convention of 1787, he was asked what he and the other founders had wrought. He replied "A republic, if you can keep it." Yet none of you will be concerned until your republic is lost, at which point it's too late.

 

"The moment people systematically get arrested for wearing Ron Paul stickers, you'll have a point."

Then you've just admitted that I have a point because people are being systematically arrested for being involved in peaceful rallies all over the country. The tally is at over 6000 now, for hwich I think there have been 4 incidences of violence among protestors, in 4 months, two of which were between protestors, not protestors and police. In stark contrast, there are hundreds of videos of police brutality. People have miscarried and received brain damage from the "non-lethal" response of the police to these non-violent rallies.

 

You must have heard about the student sit-in that was met with pepper spray and arrests. There's a long video of the whole thing. The students were sitting with their arms locked and singing songs, to which the involved officers responded by spraying them in the face with military-grade pepper spray, got more canisters and sprayed them some more, then arrested the lot of them. Pepper spray is supposed to be used to incapacitate violent assailants. Period. The police response to the people exersizing their constitutional rights is completely unwarranted and illegal. Well, now that the NDAA has been signed it's legal because the protestors are technically terrorists, so they have no rights.

Comment by Rob van Senten on January 3, 2012 at 1:30am

Yes, the US is a long way from fascism but this bill does seem to be a mistake, to what degree and how many people will suffer because of it I'm not willing to speculate about.

Comment by Matt VDB on January 2, 2012 at 3:27pm

Rob,

I'm actually sympathetic to what you're saying. I do think this bill is a mistake and I'm weary of these kinds of laws more than most. So I absolutely think there should be sane criticisms of this.

Just... the exaggeration in this thread man. I have to make fun of that, I can't help myself.

Comment by Rob van Senten on January 2, 2012 at 1:43pm

@ Matthieu,

The indefinite detention bit scares me quite a bit though, it smells Guantanamo all over. Every person deserves a day in court if they're charged of a crime, this kind of power in the executive branch is quite scary to me.

People make mistakes, that's why there are multiple branches of government to ensure a more just process of law (justice), without checks and balances the system is open for corruption. 

Comment by Matt VDB on January 2, 2012 at 12:55pm

And most European countries still have blasphemy laws. None of which are ever used.

So this matters because...? And you're worried because...? The moment people systematically get arrested for wearing Ron Paul stickers, you'll have a point.

What you have now is some age-old paranoia mixed with a greatly exaggerated sense of self-importance.

Let me know how the not paying taxes bit works out for you though.

If I were alive when slavery was legal, I'd have railed against that the same way I rail against its vestiges today. Likewise with women's lib.


Wow, that point whistled completely over your head.

Comment by John Camilli on January 2, 2012 at 10:40am

It's not about whether or not they do it, it's about them thinking they can do it for no good reason. And before you say "terrorism is no good reason?" keep in mind that all it takes to earn yourself a spot on the terror watchlist is buying a flashlight, or keeping more than 7 days worth of food, or displaying a Ron Paul sticker, or a slew of other bat-shit-crazy qualifiers, I shit you not. Take a look.

 

If I were alive when slavery was legal, I'd have railed against that the same way I rail against its vestiges today. Likewise with women's lib.

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