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My Visit from a Witness

When you're going door to door, you never know who's door you're knocking on. Such was the case yesterday, when a kind-natured pair of women (Jehova's Witnesses, Bible in hand) paid me a visit. Actually, it was a revisit. They had stopped by once before and made either physical or mental note of my Atheism.

Their last visit was brief. This one was much longer. The protagonist of the pair had some 'new evidence' that she wanted to share with me. She handed me a leaflet of sorts with information on the science of belief. I asked her what the jist of it was, and she mumbled some words about cells and time but really had no idea what information she was peddling. I took the literature and later gave it a read.

In the meantime, she started asking me some questions. She assumed, correctly, that I must believe in evolution, to which I responded that evolution is not something requiring belief, but yes, you can say that I acknowledge the fact of evolution. This of course surprised her since, as she understands it, evolution is just a theory. I'm sure you can guess where I went with that. As she tried to come to grips with my confidence in evolution, she began the ignorant questions that naturally follow - "if we came from monkeys..." and "aren't things to complex to exist without a designer?". She was all too happy to point out that when looking at my splendidly built house, it's impossible to believe that the house wasn't designed by someone/something. And look at your cute little puppy, God wanted us to have little cute things that give us happiness in our lives.

It was all so funny and easy to dismiss. I'm assuming that she had never thought about how dogs are artificially selected for their specific cuteness genes, or bigness, or fierceness, but she was rather taken aback by this new information. The designed house analogy is barely worth debating. So I moved on from such a silly comparison.

Next up was the age of the Earth. Yes, she fully believes that the Scientists have it all wrong. This is apparantly all too common, as just the previous evening I met an intelligent young man, a lawyer, who also believes that Scientists are conspiring to disprove the Bible. That was the basis of the leaflet, btw. It argued that Science is occassionally, if not often, wrong, and that if Science can be wrong then it is not to be trusted. This is their new evidence for God.

Our little meeting lasted about 20 minutes, and it was very polite and cordial. I must admit, I did most of the educating, although I can't imagine any of it was retained by the time they knocked on the next door. Still, I invited them back and I look forward to round 3 to see what new information they have next time. I will continually take inventory to make sure that I can educate these 'word spreading Witnesses'.

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Comment by matthew greenberg on November 23, 2011 at 12:24pm: i find it much harder to debate a deist than a theist. i prefer the deist mentality, but it's difficult to provide proof, and even more difficult to articulate strong arguments when the stance is "no one knows for sure". you start to get into degrees of improbability and often find yourself splitting hairs and getting nowhere. theists make it all too easy to poke holes into, and often the biggest problem is where to start!

Comment by Richard K. Emms on November 23, 2011 at 6:51am: Dogly,

I think we all share your feelings sometimes. My policy is just try to remain civil and maybe they'll go away sooner.

Comment by Dogly on November 22, 2011 at 2:19pm: I know and agree with all you have said about engaging in discussions with believers. I was unprepared and arrogant. I often feel too much rage at them to be calm. When they admit that they don't trust reason, but depend on faith, further debate seems futile. When they say that they do cruel things because god told them they could, I want to beat the crap out of them!

Comment by matthew greenberg on November 22, 2011 at 12:40pm: Dogly, i must admit that i have been 'preparing' for just such a visit, and practicing with open minded friends and even some friends who are more Christian. IMO, it is necessary to be calm, friendly, precise, and baiting. insults and hostility will get you nowhere, and it more than likely reinforces their world view of Atheists. better to be reasonable and informative, while listening intently for commonly misunderstood themes and statements. then, presto, educate away. it may not do any 'good', but it may make them realize that non-believers have real reasons for believing as they do, that we can be good, hospitable people, and it may even make them feel a bit smaller, or uneducated themselves. that's a good start, as if they feel this enough, perhaps, just perhaps, they will take some steps to get informed about what they are talking about.

Comment by Dogly on November 22, 2011 at 12:10pm: Yes, Matthew, that same lady just came to my door! Apparently, their Watchtower lesson this week is about refuting evolution. I often just drive them away. This morning, though, I'd had had a nice cup of coffee and was a little bored. I thought it would be fun. First, my friend Duncan, who you see as my representative, on the left side of this message, would scare them. That's always fun. Then, with my superior intellect, my scientific, and biblical knowledge, and my native wit, I would rout them from my land. No, that did not happen. I mixed up Job with Lott. I stood and raised my voice. I insulted her personally, calling her stupid and cruel. She, on the other hand, remained calm. She successfully refuted several of my statement about her sect. I said I knew they were J.W.s because they are required to "spread the word" and only drag themselves out for their monthly duty, at the end of the month. No, said she, "We were all out last week, too." She said, "True science doesn't believe in evolution." I lost it! "True science"! "Science doesn't believe anything!" I said, "Science is not true or false. Science is a method of testing to learn facts about the world." She brought up natural beauty. I ranted. I said a loud prayer thanking Mother Earth, and the Goddess of the Tree. I had grabbed a bible when I saw them coming, but found that what I held was, "Hinduism", by Troy Wilson Organ. Not much help, especially when she told me how she and her husband had helped her Hindu neighbor close in their garage for a prayer room.

I think my point is that my intention was to embarrass her and feel smug about myself. Being mean does not get me very far.

Comment by Richard K. Emms on November 22, 2011 at 11:53am: Matt,

   I think this time they meant doves and butterflies. They were pretty starry eyed. It also seemed to scare them that I worked for the DOD.

   To call mormons salesy would be like calling a hurricane damp. I was on crutches after shattering my leg on a motorcycle, (I live alone so it was a tough time), and they actually tried to push through my screen door. My next step was to take a swing with a crutch. That was back in '04. I've seen them on the streets, but not back at my house.

   I have seen a new twist with the hovies though. Often there are young people with older ladies. About one or two houses away are a couple of older guys waiting for them. After a visit, the women check in with the men waiting, and sometimes they write things down. That may be a good thing, if they're writing to stay away from the heathens houses. We just don't want to be bothered with their nonsense.

Comment by matthew greenberg on November 22, 2011 at 9:25am: Richard, i think what the JW's mean when they talk about one day there not being war is that Armageddon is approaching, which sounds decidedly worse than war to me.

i'm curious about the typical Mormon approach. i haven't had a Mormon knock on my door since i was about 15 years old. are they typically that much more aggressive? by putting on a white shirt and tie do they get overly salesy?

Comment by Richard K. Emms on November 22, 2011 at 6:22am: I've heard quite a few stories like this one. Normally I'm not very argumentative with them. I see no point really. It's not likely that I will change them any more than they will change me. Usually I just smile and say, no thanks, I have my own thing and am very happy with it. They will then say OK, and go away. Once however, there were two older ladies, and as they were leaving one turned and said,"But just think, one day there will be no more war and peace in the world. Won't that be great?" Rather spontaniously I responded, "Well I work for the department of defense. I guess that means I'll be out of a job." They never returned.

I will however go to battle mode with the mormons. I've had them actually try to force their way into my house. 'Nuff said about that.

Comment by matthew greenberg on November 21, 2011 at 11:02am: interestingly enough, if i had to guess, it is their fellow Christians who are likely rude and intollerant to them.

personally, i doubt i will ever get truly argumentative with them, or anyone like them. it just doesn't seem as effective. what i will do is press them, and make them answer questions to which i already know their answers. then i will hang them with their own words. that's more fun.

Comment by Loren Miller on November 21, 2011 at 10:56am: Sounds familiar. The visits I've had from JW's have been notable in that, so far, none of them want to try to slug it out with me regarding science or scientific theory. I don't know how well they have prepared themselves to go up against people like us who actually know our stuff, but for what I can tell, their preparation, such as it is, ain't all that great.

Fine with me, really. Their visits to this point have been mildly amusing, but little more than that. They've been respectful and I've been cordial so far, but eventually, this game is going to get old. I guess we'll see how long it takes to get to "eventually."