My response to a rude preacher’s letter.

My response to a rude preacher’s letter.



Recently I was the target of a hit-and-run preacher who without regard to privacy or decency, decided to send me the following message. It contains the same drivel that we as nonbelievers are constantly barraged
with. The message was sent unsolicited via facebook from some unknown believer
in California who most likely knows nothing about me except that I eschew all
religious dogma. On one hand, I considered the intrusion to be extremely rude
and unoriginal, yet I also was amused in how cowardly the believer behaved in
sending this message and subsequently disappeared, not responding to the reply
nor indicating any desire for dialog but rather to preach inane dogma.



So here is the preacher’s original message. The only alteration I made was to remove their name, for unless the preacher was to agree to dialog, then that person deserves no citation.


Please bear with it for a moment, for it provides context for the reply. Sure, it is sheer rubbish, mostly nonsensical and full of lies, half-truths, dogmatic assertions, and logical fallacies.



Subject: There are only two things to worry about.


There are only two things to worry about.

Either you are well or you are sick.
Jesus said, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have
not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."

If you are well, then there is nothing to worry about.
Except that no one is well.
No one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the (moral) law;
rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

But if you are sick, there are only two things to worry about.
So then, we are all sick. We are saturated in sin.
Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous
will live by faith."

Either you will get well or you will die.
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ.
He was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities. The
punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.

If you get well, there is nothing to worry about.
But all die. All die because all sin. Do you know anyone who has lived forever?
I know One.
To you, Lord, I called, I cried for mercy: What gain is there in my destruction,
in my going down into the pit? Will the dust praise you? Will it proclaim your
faithfulness?

If you die, there are only two things to worry about.
Since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through
a man. In Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Either you will go to heaven or hell.
Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment is coming very
soon. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of
water.

If you go to heaven there is nothing to worry about.
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out
his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father
and his angels.

But if you go to hell, you'll grab a beer and meet up with your friends once
you get there!
Everything you consider good (fun/comforting/pleasant) Tim, does not exist in
hell. There are no friends, there is no beer.
I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were
opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were
judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. If anyone's
name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of
fire.


The Lord looks down from heaven on the sons of men to see if there are any who
understand, any who seek God.

Nebuchadnezzar, the ruler of Babylon - literally the ruler of all the world,
came to know the Lord only after God "wooed him with suffering," as
they say. "Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise and extol and honor the King of
heaven, for all his works are right and his ways are just; and those who walk
in pride he is able to humble."

So what is it going to take, Tim?



I was both angered and enthused by the message, for it reminded me that there are people with the gall to believe in such rubbish even in this century, regardless of reality.


Without further ado, this was my reply:




Dear name removed>>,



Have we met? I do not know you, do I?



What is it going to take for what? For me to accept sheer utter nonsense?


Please pardon my abruptness, however grant me that I will be abrupt and completely honest to whoever barges in on my space and presumes to know about me and to preach the most abhorrent of religious nonsense and
rubbish.


There are more than just two, or four, etc. things to worry about in life, yet to live life to the fullest is what I have and will continue to do.


So what if some mythical Jesus was purported to say, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." for this is right out of
Christian scriptures. I consider any and all scriptures to be fallacious at
best. They however are human-made literature, and often poorly-written
literature, without any supernatural or paranormal source. Other than
anthropological and historical interest, I consider scriptures to be completely
irrelevant to the issues of this modern era.


The Christian notions of righteousness, sin, and morality are all archaic, incorrect, and inappropriate. Philosophical ethics and contemporary morality are best derived from a rational framework of Humanism
and humanitarianism. Religion has co-opted ethics and morality for its
nefarious ends for far too long.


"So then, we are all sick. We are saturated in sin." This happens to be a disgusting, debasing and dehumanizing doctrine, one that has no place in a contemporary progressive society.


"Clearly no one is justified before God by the law" No this is not clear. For one, there is no proof for the existence of ANY gods, nor is there any proof for religious claims stemming from such
imaginary god or gods.


"The righteous will live by faith." is also an obscure statement in that faith has not been shown to be anything other than either self-deception, delusion, fraud, or wishful-thinking.


I eschew the term 'losing faith' for nothing valued was lost. In fact, nothing would be lost but there is so much to gain.


Gaining reason and freedom from superstition is the positive result of Atheism and Freethinking philosophies.


Leaving 'faith' behind as a bad habit frees the mind and the thinker.


'Sin' is an archaic religious concept that is inappropriate, immature, and unprofessional. It's a dehumanizing concept that serves only for clergy to oppress and manipulate followers.


'He was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities. The punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.' This is also an abhorrent doctrine, for contemporary
humanity needs to take responsibility for its actions and adhere to rational
ethics and valid morality instead of resorting to fantastical whimsical
religious notions that have no basis in fact or reality.


No one and nothing lives forever. Not even mythical figures. Don't be dishonest by telling me you know one.


More quotations of scripture will not be convincing. Rather, provide some verifiable evidence please.


Resurrection of the dead, Adam, and Christ are all mythological and have no basis in fact or reality.


I will not fear some bully god or give glory to a mythological construct that only serves to waste time, waste resources, and distract from real issues. I prefer rather to work for the betterment of
humanity and the solving of problems using reason and rationality. That god has
no interest to me, and I will not succumb to its purported bullying threats of
judgment. No such god made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of
water. I will not 'worship' for 'worship' is de-humanizing groveling.


"He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels." Do you actually believe this? If
so, then how do you reconcile these with the facts and reality of the world and
existence? I'll be kind, what are the purported angels supposed to be if not
mythological beings imagined by people with no more reality than unicorns,
dragons, leprechauns, and fairies? Before answering be sure you can provide verifiable
evidence that they exist.


By the way, heavens and hells are all mythological. I will not accept the existence of such places without verifiable evidence that they exist.


Also, as a side note, any god that would create a hell to torment his creations is completely abhorrent, evil, and worthy of nothing but scorn. I would never respect or grovel to such a foul entity.


Quoting more useless scripture such as "I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to
what they had done as recorded in the books. If anyone's name was not found
written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." only
serves to illustrate the barbaric nature of such a god.


I will not cater to such a "Lord" which as a despotic monarch is an antithesis to the democratization, equality and improvement of humanity. There is no god that looks down from some mythical heaven.


Yes, there are many who seek God, gods, or whatever but what they find is all made up.


Do you really think that your religion is the same as that of the mentioned Nabû-kudurri-uṣur "Nebuchadnezzar" whose very name refers to the Akkadian god Nabu? If so, then please note that I do not nor will
not share in that religion.


I observe religions from a scientific, and specifically anthropological perspective.


No religious believer has shown that God exists. No religious believer has shown that their god exists. No religious believer has shown that their god is God as opposed to someone else's. I have studied
extensively the literatures of the varieties of world religions and the
mythological development of religious themes. I do not practice religion, for I
see it for what it is, a misguided human construct.


By the way, I do not buy into the nonsense of Christianity being a relationship and not a religion. It is a religion and one cannot have a real relationship with fantasy nonsense.


I wasn't sure whether to thank you for preaching to me or not. However, thank you for contacting me. I do not know you, and I expect that you are not someone I know in disguise.



These are what I care about: Humanity, Health, Progress, Love, Rationality, Reason, Science, Humanism, Feminism, Equality, Racial equality, Gender equality, Civil rights for all, Education, Ethics, Art,
Society, among others.



So I challenge you. Eschew all religious dogmaticism and devotion to fantasy and nonsensical notions. Break away from the oppressive, suppressive, and depressive chains of religious barbarism and practice. Free
yourself from the contradiction, the fear, and the separation that comes with
religious faith. If not, then please provide your (not someone else's) concise
definitions and verifiable evidence for the following: Adam, Angels, Christ,
Faith, God, Heaven, Hell, Jesus, Righteousness, Sin, and Worship.


I will not presume to know anything about you, however I am open to continued dialogue and I will respect you as a human being and as a person. Just do not expect me to respect religion for I know of its deleterious
effects.



But yet again I challenge you: Free yourself and be yourself.



So what is it going to take, name removed>>, for you to be real with me?



Cheers,


-Tim (Tcsgrv)





Granted, I expect that my reply leaves much to be desired, for there are many points that I could have expanded upon, and others that I could have dealt with. Any errors, or course, are all due to my inadequate
memory, coupled with my hasty writing. I was not out to persuade or convince,
nor even to open a dialog with someone who holds beliefs as crazy and
irresponsible as those in the message. My intent was to strike deep so that the
preacher either fled or read, if the person had any strength of self to
actually read something to jump-start any thinking at all.


Comments regarding what I could have said clearer are very welcome.
Again, any errors are my own, and so having them pointed out are also welcome.


Also, I am always open to a chat at the pub with freethinkers and skeptics of all kinds.
I have decided to share this since we all come face-to-face with drivel and
dogma almost daily. So by sharing our stories we can be encouraged to stand up
against the onslaught of religiosity and its malodorous and deleterious effects.



Cheers to you all, for my freethinking friends are fine friends.


-Tim Bailey {Tcsgrv}


Tcsgrv Primary contact Information:



On Atheist Nexus and Think Atheist as Tcsgrv.


Email:


tcsgrv@mindspring.com


Twitter:


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Friend Feed


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AIM:


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http://www.facebook.com/tcsgrv



The constant repetition of Tcsgrv is insisted upon by the Department of Redundancy Department.


Views: 16

Tags: Apologetics, Preachers, Preaching, dogmaticism

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Comment by Tim Tcsgrv on July 13, 2010 at 9:48am
@Pansy. Cheers! Suffice it to say the offending preacher never responded to my reply. Splendid news on the $80. At least they were polite enough to send you something of value.
Thanks for the comment.
-Tim {Tcsgrv}
Comment by Pansy on July 13, 2010 at 9:29am
cheers to you for having the courage to respond to such a ridiculous, selfish, immature letter......

we had a bible sent to us by an unknown source couple of years ago; it had $80 in it!!!. not sure what the money was for but who were we to question, right? we had a great dinner! and one hell of a bon-fire ;)

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