Comment

Comment by Sonja M. Williams on September 24, 2012 at 9:57pm

Why so many craft bloggers are Christian? I think I know the answer. It is a well-known fact that Christianity praises women who are industrious. Check out Proverbs 31: 10-31 (The Virtuous Wife) Many times, I have read/heard Christians using these bible verses to praise their mother, grandmother, spouse etc.

Comment by Glen Rosenberg on September 24, 2012 at 5:58pm

Lillie, I am sure you are correct. Twain said you show me where a man gets his corn pone and I will show you where he gets his pinions.

And opposing self-interest is part of the human condition. Although a person who has made her bed has to sleep in it cuz the floor aint none to inviting.

Comment by Glen Rosenberg on September 24, 2012 at 5:56pm

Liz, I wonder whether the author discussing Dickens is correct in the notion that he supports those well defined victorian/bourgeouis roles. In support the author says that the women who depart from the norm come to ruin. That may be satire.

I think there is something to what you say. Indoctrination defines roles and give status and even the lower echelon insists on guarding its place. Religion in general makes the universe intelligible, fairy-tale explanation notwithstanding. Further it defines a place for each person and steps and stages of life which in turn provide comfort, I suppose. And it is so very difficult to upset the apple cart of a person's world view.

Your idea of women protecting their place in the hierarchy finds support in the era of civil war america in which the lowest rung whites were the most vicious in persecuting blacks. Also ultra-opposed to emancipation which would of course threaten their status as the penultimate nadir of society. 

As far as biologies' role I really do not know. Far too often however when we analyze civilization we ascribe inequitable conditions to "environmental factors". What of the thing in itself? Dont things become the way they are at least in part because of their intrinsic qualities. NATURE. Improve civilization definitely. Could not agree more.

Comment by Lillie on September 24, 2012 at 5:26pm

This is a very interesting discussion separate from arts and crafts.  (Although that is interesting, too.)  Glen, I have always wondered how women married to conservatives can vote Republican and I think it is an economic dependency.

Comment by Liz on September 24, 2012 at 5:09pm

Same here with anecdotal stuff... though there's actual scholarship on crafting, blogging, craft-blogging, and the rest of the topics I touched on, but damn if I'm going to trawl databases on my free time :) 

I think you are right in some women in religiously/culturally colored subordinate roles guarding their low status.  My knee-jerk is to say maybe it's a case of "it's small but it's *mine*", a la Victorian "spheres" (http://www.victorianweb.org/authors/dickens/ge/farrell2.html - mind you it's been a while since I read that, and I hope it doesn't contradict any of this!)

The indoctrination creates a hierarchy, which always conveniently has someone below you, no matter how low your status is.  So perhaps there's a comfort of sorts in that, even though Mrs. X is considered essentially a large child in her marriage (!) she has a definite place, and that place relieves her of having to define herself?  Tricky territory...

I doubt there's a biological drive against equality.  So much of what is "the way things are" is hanging on hooks of culture that I can't personally throw my weight behind that idea.  Even if there may be, biology is certainly not destiny :)  Stuff can and should be improved!

Comment by Glen Rosenberg on September 24, 2012 at 4:45pm

Liz, I can only offer anecdotal evidence and it is frustrating to me, but religious women guard their religious/patriarchal roles zealously. I express ideals about equality, egalitarianism, no differentiation in work and they defend status quo. Men have their work, women different work. Men are to be dominant and controlling, women are to be submissive. And the greater the religious indoctrination the greater the satisfaction with the way things are.

Is this largely the way women feel who have been raised in religious pits?  I dont know. But it makes me wonder whether there is a biological impetus against equality and in favor of the way things were and continue to be in much of the world.

You made me learn an acronym. I say why do it yourself when others can do it for you.

Comment by Liz on September 24, 2012 at 4:28pm

Thanks, Glen!  Even though I'm coming at it from a DIY enthusiast's perspective, the larger issues (ie gender roles) reach out so far.  There was an old feminist slogan that still holds true for gender considerations, and even with religious vs secular matters: "The personal is political"!

Comment by Glen Rosenberg on September 24, 2012 at 3:53pm

Liz, even though I've very little interest in arts and crafts what you have written makes me think about gender roles. Specifically how much of entrenched patriarchy/religiously defined roles are cultural and how much are they innate.