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Morals came from some where.... so they must have came from God!

98% of theists (don't ask where I got those statistics. I don't know.) I've talked to for some reason think this is an end-all good argument, when it really is a poor one.
They usually start out by asking if you believe in good and evil. My answer is yes, with a but. Yes but...people aren't all good or evil. Good and evil are very vague and broad terms, especially the word good. The idea of Good and Evil isn't the same for all people, but generally most people living in the same place agree on a few ground rules.
They usually disregard the last bit, as it doesn't fit into what I'm saying. "So you come up with what is good and evil? Then by who's standards do you decide what is right or wrong? Is Hitler evil? He didn't think so..."
We don't need anyone's standards. In the USA, at least, we are a democracy, we decide on what set of rules governs us. We vote on who we want to represent us and come up with the laws we follow. Not only that, every set of actions you can commit has a consequence which benefits you or society.
I heard this from a guy I now only consider a acquaintance ,"Cheating on your boyfriend isn't against the law! Would you do it if he'd never find out?"
No and no. Why would you do something "just because no one would find out." Nearly impossible. I'd feel guilty. And he wouldn't cheat on me and even if he did, two wrongs don't make a right. Is 'No one will find out' ever a good idea to do anything? It's a pretty stupid reason.
Then once they find out you have a conscience, they tell you some big man in the sky gave it to you.
1. What evidence do you have that this whinely little voice is actually an angel on my shoulder.
2. Wouldn't it interfere with free will? It does have a lot of say on what I do.
Next, I slap them with the same question they asked me, usually phrase a little different, but a lot meaner.
"So if God didn't exist... would you kill someone if you could get away with it?"
Most of them will say no. But the ones who say yes, the conversation ends there.
If they say no, why do you need a God in the first place to guide you morally? Are you really that morally stupid that you can't distinguish a good decision from a really bad one?

Tags: God, bad, christianity, code, ethics, logic, morals, theism

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Comment by Hekate Moon on July 2, 2009 at 5:55pm: They just think the earth is only 6 thousand years old and believe carbon dating only works when you are using it for biblical documents.

Comment by mike on July 1, 2009 at 3:44pm: morals are learned,based on the culture of the society,where you live. i get this arguement all the time from theist that have no clue. there god only apears in the minute before midnight in our existance on this planet. over 100thousand years,has humans been in current form,yet there imaginary sky buddy apears some 6thousand yrs ago,,how sill if there god gave us morals? how come we did just fine for the first 99thousand years on earth.. silly fundies god is for kids

Comment by Chrys Stevenson on June 30, 2009 at 8:24am: Morals (and, for that matter, manners) come from our need to co-exist in society and for our need to live co-operatively with others.

Comment by AcesLucky on June 30, 2009 at 7:55am: Mine come from my ability to put myself in the place of another person. As long as there is empathy, we will have morals... and a sense of justice.

Comment by Johnsky on June 29, 2009 at 9:07pm: Ah, yes, I've dealt with this argument many times.

A co-worker of my wife, Mark, is a born again Christian. Evangelical I believe.
I don't entirely like the guy coming over when we invite her co-workers, but in an attempt to be civil we still do.

This guy believes the same. That morals come from the bible and the bible alone.
He caught me on the balcony one night. I was out for a smoke, and he started with the usual religious rhetoric everyone warned me about with him.

He got onto the topic that everyone is inherently evil.
I was expecting such an argument, and retorted with "What evil have I done?"
He didn't reply, so I took the initiative.
I asked if he was aware of me having ever done a single evil act toward another human being.
I then said "I have no god. No religious book to tell me what is right or wrong. And yet, I've never directly harmed another person except for in self defence. If I'm inherently evil, there should be a long line of people who I've wronged... where are they?"

He tried to argue that if it was my parents that gave me my morals, then they got them from the bible.
I told him my parents never showed me a bible, they never pushed any form of religion on me, and their parents like them didn't either.
I continued to tell him that my parents morals are in direct conflict with my own.
My father believes that if someone hits you, you hit back harder... and that if anyone stands in your way from getting what you want, make sure they no longer stand.
My mother, well, she supports this attitude.
I believe quite the opposite.
Quell a conflict, don't broaden it.
Deal with the opposition, don't destroy them.

Essentially, my moral code is my own.
I created them, I follow them, and no book can ever tell me I'm wrong.
And certainly not some top 10 list.

After that and a few other topics, I noticed his opinion of belief became strangely pacifist.

He leaves his religion at the door when he's over now. Too bad he doesn't show the same respect to other people.