How does the idea of a “Catholic child” not make you sick? The child isn’t being given a choice whatsoever in their religion. Their parents have already made a decision for them before they can even make a good decision. Young children are very impressionable and you scare the shit out of them with fear of eternal damnation, that will stick with them. Indoctrinating children is easily equivalent to brainwashing. I think its truly a form of child abuse.

“Isn’t it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?” -Douglas Adams
A child sees thing and ask questions. If you tell them the Bible is the answer and its infallible that’s going to stay with them. Instead we should teach them science and raise all children as agnostics. Then when they are old enough to make a decision for themselves, they can choose religion or atheism. People need to break free from this vicious cycle from generation to generation. I am happy that I was never truly raised in a religion, many people who were have lasting psychological effects. I mean if you are so used to being scared of going to Hell and even if you figure out it isn’t true that feeling will still be there. It just isn’t right to do this to children. I mean isn’t religion essentially a giant book club? Everyone should have a choice to opt in or not.
http://bit.ly/3qNOtd

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Tags: abuse, brain, child, indoctrination, washing

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Comment by Jeff on August 5, 2009 at 12:07am
And I forgot to mention the most critical factor. It is generally YOU that is the element causing discord, not others.

Jumping to conclusions, assessing circumstances from flawed perspectives, molding comprehension to meet your personal needs and LOOKING for elements with which to address and strike discord creates a self-fulfilling prophecy for you.
Comment by Jeff on August 5, 2009 at 12:03am
Jacqueline Sarah Homan said, "Angie was viciously attacked by two very strident anti-meat members of A|N in a manner I feel was grossly unfair, so of course I defended her."

Just who do you think you are? You're

Your assessment, the picture you've painted, is a lie, a fraud, a delusion, a fantasy. You've painted a false impression and provided the reader here with a misinterpretation and distortion of the facts. Additionally, you behaved as poorly as anyone else on that post if in fact anyone behaved poorly at all. I am insulted that you have decided to publicly air a private complaint especially since only YOU have these deep seated feelings and especially since only YOU see this from the perspective that you've painted for the reader. You are no better than anyone else on this web site although you attempt to portray yourself as such. You are, and this may come as a surprise, no more intelligent, critical, analytical, knowledgeable, astute, perceptive, intuitive or capable than anyone else on this web site and you suffer from the same ailments or afflictions most of humanity suffers from. You view and perceive subject matter disproportionately when it's favorable to you and your "comment agenda," your comments often maintain a consistent theme of oppression with you in the role of the provider of valiant defense and you pepper your comments with frequent references to yourself, as in, "I (place here any of a number of descriptions seen above)." This focuses attention on yourself, which is what every comment you make is designed to do. I, I, I. This method of communicating only communicates a deep desire for acceptance.

You delivered a scathing epistle, to use your own words (in your comments on the thread you mention above), which is no different than that which you disdain and denigrate. Lastly, while Angie spent a great deal of time expressing certain discomfort with your actions not once did you offer an apology but went on to continue defending an indefensible position when a simple apology was all that was needed.

Please, don't distort the facts to meet your own personal needs. Reflect; you're making yourself look rather incompetent.
Comment by Angie Jackson on August 3, 2009 at 10:06pm
Well I'm sorry that things got bad after I left the PLH board. I don't feel like a victim, and I don't feel the need to read what was said about me behind my back (it'll just make me feel crappy and I feel fine now, so why ruin it). I have been enjoying A/N progressively less and less as time goes on. Everything is so strident. I've been spending much more of my time on the broader atheist blogging community. Even though there are supposed to 9,000 A/N members, I keep running into the same 20 (3 of whom can be assholes)
Comment by Richard Goscicki on August 3, 2009 at 10:05pm
I'm enjoying Classism for Dimwits by Jacqueline our contributor and recommend it to A/N readers. You're saying a lot of truth I've known my whole life. A sign of good writers is that they tell you things you already know. But now you know it more strongly. How terrible is it for a country to have over two million individuals incarcerated, yet we live our private lives as if they don’t exist.

I've studied social psychology quite a bit in my time. Prof. Phillip Zimbardo of Stamford is pretty much the Father of Modern Social Psychology is still a friend and was kind enough to endorse Mirror Reversal. Check him out on Youtube if you’re interesting in conditioning and brain washing.

I offer a scene from Full Metal Jacket as an example of how powerful brainwashing and mind control can be. The recruits are taught to forget about the Ten Commandments and the morals they learned back home. It’s okay to kill primitive Asian people; you’re defending freedom and you won’t be prosecuted. It’s quite a switch from the values they learned growing up, but the methods of mind control are very powerful.

Look for deindividualization (shaving the recruits hair and putting on a uniform so they all look alike), dehumanization (“you’re a bunch of maggots”), isolation (they’ll all far from home and information is tightly controlled), the us-and-them meme (we are good Americans and the Viet Namese are scurrilous Commie rogues (listen to the words of the song).
Comment by Angie Jackson on August 3, 2009 at 8:02pm
Also, I'm sorry to hear about your own experiences in an eco-cult. If you have the right personality type to start a cult, you can start one on any subject, not just religion and aliens. Margaret Singer has worked with a horse cult, eco cults, a car sales cult, and a time share cult. In no way does indoctrination require god belief.
Comment by Angie Jackson on August 3, 2009 at 8:00pm
Don't drag me into this by name! Whooooaaa! I never mentioned the word "PETA" or"classism"; I never talked about reproductive rights or anything *like* that in the PLH discussion. And when people got persnickety I just hit the "Stop Following" button. I'm a big girl, and I know not to let the tiny people in the internet rule my real life. I appreciate you coming to my defense, but I do not in any way want to be a poster girl about cyberbullying. I left because the conversation no longer seemed constructive, and it wasn't fun anymore.

On the subject of cults and indoctrination though, yes I have concerns about what tacticts are used to present information to anyone, especially children. That's why so much of my blog is devoted to debunking public statements of politicians, or religious writings of US cults like WWCG and the deliverance crowd. I think that even if the information is totally valid it is more respectful to a child's autonomy if we try to avoid indoctrination.

I did not accuse anyone of indoctrinating their kids for either choosing to live as vegans or to read the book in question. I repeatedly stated that I realize my own childhood might bias me to see any sort of strongly worded ethical statement from parents as mind-control. I was brainwashed from birth, so it makes sense that I'm probably overly sensitive to that.

I appreciate your motives here Jacqueline, but I am fine. In future, I'd prefer you asked me before using me directly to back up a position (thanks).
Comment by Jim DePaulo on August 3, 2009 at 10:11am
After WWII my parents applied to adopt two Italian sisters that had been orphaned during the war. The application was denied as my parents would not sign the off on the condition that the sisters be raise in the catholic church and sent to catholic schools. Can't have compassion getting in the way of the bullshit dogma.
Comment by Jake Collyer on August 3, 2009 at 1:26am
That I can agree with from personal experience.

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