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Comment by Anwar Diamante on September 27, 2009 at 10:22am

Dan,

How butch, sanding floors...lol...Okay, on a more serious tone. I think it is true to say that we are all in some way 'other.' I find through comments, blogs etc that we as atheists are otherized by society. However, I know that those that are educated and or atheist make up a small population. So, we are technically 'other' eiter way it goes...

Comment by Sentient Biped on September 27, 2009 at 10:00am

Anwar,

Maybe it's natural to be "other"? I don't know. In my early teens, I read "The painted bird" by Jerzy Kosinski. The metaphor was based on painting a bird and returning it to its flock, and the other birds don't recognize it, and attack it. The main character was a darker complection boy in Nazi Poland, maybe Jewish, maybe Gypsi, not clear, but also a painted bird not welcome in the blue-eyed, blond, flock. Kosinski was brilliant, and ultimately committed suicide. Probably also a painted bird. Or at least, "other".

I think that being "other" is part of existential angst. Maybe not - we only know our own experiences, and what has been shared. I certainly felt that way, long before I became atheist. In fact, I was ridiculed for my religiousity, as well as my geekiness, my sports ineptness, bookishness, social ineptness, clumsiness, earnestness, and incipient gayness (which I was unaware of but apparently everyone else could see). In the military, I felt less "other" than anywhere else, then when in college I was back to being 'other' due to social class and life experience. In grad school, in the sciences, everyone was a geek, most (I think) were atheists, and most were focused on their research - so the 'other' aspect dimmed. It's there again, but doesn't seem to matter as much now. I'd often rather be in the garden with my dog, or sanding a floor, than socializing anyway.

Comment by Anwar Diamante on September 26, 2009 at 9:23pm

Josh, I like your input to this discussion. Often times, I am guilty of this, we as "others" dont realize that males from the european tradition are at times the other too. For example, men, can be discriminated against. I know when affirmative action was first being used a white male was not accepted into medical school because he was a white male. So, I can honestly say, you probably have been genuinely otherized for your atheism. Its been noted in polls that an atheist will never be voted as president. I was told all the way through college even that a black male will never be president oops i guess they didnt expect obama. So, we know we have a long way to go for acceptance from 'them' because we are 'other.'

Comment by Josh on September 26, 2009 at 8:51pm

Like Méabh I've felt like "the other" long before I became an atheist.

I'm a white heterosexual male so I don't have the other possible targets of discrimination to deal with. Only the fact that I'm an atheist in one of the most conservative christian states in the midwest. No, for me it was more a matter of interests. I play sports but don't care to watch any. I can't stand D&D and while I'm technical I'm not a gamer or gadget geek. I don't fit very nicely into any group of people I've been around; that's just the way it's always been.

What I've found is there are really very few people who care to discuss philosophy or even think about the big questions. I found this especially true with religious friends...they wouldn't dig into the theology with me, they just took what the preacher said as truth. We just shoot hoops and ask how the family is doing, that's about it.

That said, I don't feel like "the other" much any more. I'm married with 3 children, and my family doesn't care that I don't believe. I have lost friends, but I actually lost more just because we didn't have anything in common any more, not because I'm an atheist. I have one good friend besides my wife that I can have thought-provoking "meaning of life" discussions with, and that's probably enough for now.

Perhaps my way of looking at this is egotistical; but I've always felt to be on the same footing as the others around me. If I've been excluded, I looked at it as their loss. When I've been disrespected, I can be pretty aggressive and let people know they can't get away with it. In short, I don't really give a shit about what "society in general" thinks about me personally; only what I can do to help make progress towards more people with critical thinking skills and less people living in poverty.

Comment by Emekan A'dem on September 26, 2009 at 8:10pm

Also, as an "other," we occasionally absorb the dominant traditions and sayings. I still can't stop myself from using "Jesus" as an expletive. There was in article in Racialicious about being steeped in Christian tradition even if we aren't apart of it, and if I find it I'll post it here.

Comment by Anwar Diamante on September 26, 2009 at 8:06pm

True!!!! I use the 'the devil is busy' line all the time. Of course, its all pun.

Comment by Emekan A'dem on September 26, 2009 at 8:00pm

Oh Jesus (pun intented), yeah I know.

On the other hand, the world in general needs intensive Gestalt therapy.

Comment by Anwar Diamante on September 26, 2009 at 7:31pm

Exactly, people are unfortunately, money driven. So, of course, you know how black folks love throwing money into churches, charter schools and the ideology of psychology but not its true practical approach. However, I love, love, love, philosophy and theory....But guess, what? no money in that field...So, I have been 'suggested' to go into psychology because its more money. I'm like, uh no, the requirements and money to get into a psychology program outweigh my interest to pursue it and does the world need another shrink?...lol

Comment by Emekan A'dem on September 26, 2009 at 7:23pm

I still struggle knowing that minorities are so underrepresented in those fields. On the other hand, research CAN be mesearch, and there's some undercurrent that pulls African Americans to further understand what's happening to them and other minorities around them. Even my own second major is Sociology (the first being International Studies: Africa).

Also, as a side note, it's disheartening to know that there are hardly any minorities in general seeking grad degrees in the fields of study that have the most potential to alter society faster: through scientific discovery, new philosophic trends and legislation.

Comment by Anwar Diamante on September 26, 2009 at 7:14pm

Emekan,

Even though minorities are increasing graduate degrees. Its still not enough. The only graduate degrees earned by African Americans are Phds in Religion, Psychology and Education. None in Science, the Humanities and low levels in Law too. So, of course, no black philosophers or in literature... hmmm though provoking isn't it ;)

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