Barker visit, Part 2: roundup and personal reaction

Dan Barker


Here is Part 2 of my roundup on Dan Barker's visit on December 3 in Memphis. In this part, I'll mention a few more highlights as well as my personal reaction and thoughts. For Part I, click here. For an excellent recap of the Dan Barker event, read Oliver's post (oliver_poe on Twitter) on the Mississippi Atheists website.

I've already mentioned in my first post much of his talk about state-church separation, so I will focus on other aspects here. Perhaps the most notable thing about Dan Barker's talk was the fact that it was a fair-minded plea for state-church separation, filled with anecdotes, examples, and humor that could appeal to both believers and non-believers. While Barker does also talk on things such as Biblical errancy, his goal in this talk was not to promote an atheist agenda but speak on state-church issues.

A nice example of this were Dan's arguments defending religious believers. (No, that is not a typo.) Unlike the exaggerated image of angry, close-minded atheists held by some believers (and too often painted in the media), Dan Barker made it very clear at several points that religious people do a lot of good in the world.

One believer argued during the Q & A that humans by nature are not altruistic, that we are selfish and introverted by nature. Barker countered that humans are actually very social animals, and that being empathetic and altruistic comes naturally to people. Barker said that Christians, believers of different faiths, as well as nonbelievers, are just as good and kind at heart. Because of this, he argued the human qualities of kindness and generosity "transcend" religion. Instead of just attacking religion, Barker was trying to find common ground among believers and non-believers.

Dan Barker also made it clear that he does not think that the government should go on the offensive against religion, just keep religion out of government. He cited the example of the much-mediatized solstace plaques that have been placed in a few state capitals (including Olympia, Washington; Springfield, Illinois; Madison, Wisconsin). The plaques, which state among other things that "There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell" are only placed by the Freedom From Religion Foundation in response to Christmas displays in state capitals.

In response to a questioner about the goal of such plaques, Barker made it clear that they are actually pleased when governments choose to ban all displays during the holiday season, which is what happened in Olympia after the FFRF's plaque spurred a number of groups to post displays in addition to the Christmas one. Barker argued that banning these diplays was a victory since there shouldn't be "religion OR irreligion" (emphasis his) in government buildings, including religious prayers.

He argued that non-believers deserve just as much protection as belivers both in Memphis and nationally. Using national statitics, he argued that few politicans would openly come out with policies that would discriminate against Jews, who represent a little over 1% of the population, while many politicians openly oppose atheists and agnostics, who represent between 9-10% of the population. The Memphis City Council, like all government bodies, should represent and support the rights of all citizens, not just believers. Instead of having Christian or other religious prayers at its meetings, the Council should neither support nor attack any religion. (As an atheist, he likened the situation of seeing councilmembers praying to seeing an airline pilot pray. A pilot should be confident in his flying skills, not asking for outside help to fly the plane. Barker joked that if he saw a pilot praying before take-off, he'd get right off the plane.)

Barker also mentioned the Founding Fathers, at a number of junctures: something that believers often do while trying to defend religious incursions into government. Barker mentioned the Jefferson Bible, for which Jefferson literally cut out with a pair of scissors all of the superstitious (miracles, etc.) parts of the New Testament. He said that while some founders were Christians, most were Deists who wanted religion separate from government. He said that as a believer, he used to think of the Pilgrims and Founders as being related to each other, when in reality they were separated by over 100 years and religious beliefs.

In order to address the fact that the Founders didn't put the phrase "wall of separation between church and state" in the Constitution (Jefferson wrote this in a letter), Barker said that the concept is there even if the phrase isn't. He gave other examples of phrases that aren't in the Constitution or Bill of Rights that have become commonplace descriptions of the ideas found there: the words "Bill of Rights", "interstate commerce", "separation of powers", and "checks and balances" also are not in the constitution either, but you don't hear religious people criticizing those who talk about the Bill of Rights saying there is not such thing.

Barker did not completely spare religious teachings in his talk, however. There were a few critiques about religion, the majority of which were in direct response to questions attacking church-state separation or atheism. Dan Barker poked fun at the creation story in the Bible, which includes a talking snake (Barker, who is part Native American, mentioned that his tribe also had a snake myth). He also mentioned that Jesus clearly supports slavery in the New Testament, using it as an example in his parables (saying you should beat some slaves less than others) instead of speaking out against it.

Barker mentioned that Jefferson famously said that finding good in the Bible was like trying to find "diamonds in a dunghill." Barker also defended his right in the public sphere to say that he finds the teachings of Christianity, and the Christian god, to be morally offensive, in particular the idea that humans are by nature unclean and sinful. He said that real life debunks this notion, that we see headlines of criminals in the paper (of which religious leaders aren't exempt, he pointed out) because they are exceptions to the norm. If that's how everyone was, then it wouldn't be news. He also cited studies have shown that countries that are generally areligious, such as Nordic countries, often rank as the happiest and least plagued by crime and other social problems.

There is more I could comment on, but I think that sums up the main points of interest about the talk that weren't covered in my first post or Oliver's post.

I have a personal confession to make: I am somewhat of an admirer of Dan Barker. I was very religious when I was younger, and can identify with Dan Barker's journey from belief to unbelief. My grandmother thought I would be good pastor material, and I seriously considered becoming a pastor. So when I first heard about Dan Barker, a minister-turned-atheist, his story really hit home with me. I've read his book godless, am a faithful (or faithless) listener of Freethought Radio, and have listened to and viewed many of his talks and debates online. So I was very much looking forward to seeing what he had to say about the Memphis situation, and state-church separation in general.

After the talk, I waited in line to meet Dan Barker. He talked to me briefly and was very personable both to me and the people who were in line ahead of me (he even gave out a free copy of his book to someone!). I asked him to sign my copy of his book, and I mentioned to him that I am a member of the Freedom From Religion Foundation. I had a bookmark "Imagine No Religion", which FFRF had sent me for free when I ordered his book from them. I showed it to him and the person next to me said she thought at first I was trying to give him a religious tract!

Since I am not "out" as an atheist, except to my wife, standing in line in a public venue to meet Dan Barker and have him sign a book entitled "godless" for me was a big, and somewhat frightening, step for me. While I did not come out and say "I am an atheist", it was the closest I've ever come to be open about my atheism in person. I told him my name for him to sign it, but I don't think anyone there knew or recognized me, so I guess I am still officially in the closet for now. Dan Barker was wearing an "A" pin, part of the Richard Dawkins coming out campaign for atheists. Maybe someday soon I will feel comfortable enough with friends and family, and secure enough in my job, to be an open atheist, too.

Originally posted on http://iamtheblog.com/wordpress2/?p=975. Photo source : The Daily Helmsman

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Tags: Barker, Dan, FFRF, Jefferson, Memphis, Thomas, a, amendment, and, church, More…diamonds, dunghill, first, godless, in, prayers, state

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Comment by IAmTheBlog on December 11, 2009 at 2:28pm
I'm glad you enjoyed reading the posts! Yes, it is mostly job related at this point, thanks for asking. I currently have a year-to-year job, and God comes up one way or another at work maybe not every day, but at least several times a week (when I lived in the north I don't think it hardly if ever came up). So while I don't think it's likely I would be let go if employer/co-workers/others found out I'm atheist, I don't want to risk it especially in this economy. If I've been here a few more years, or get a more permanent position, I'd be a lot more likely to "come out" online or if asked.

I do also have a few very religious family members, including a sister-in-law who is in the seminary, a grandmother who was a church secretary for most of her life but is retired now. They would be pretty upset, and worried I'm going to hell I'm sure, but now that my wife is okay with me being an atheist (she even said she was glad I went to the Barker talk) I'm less concerned about the rest of my or her family thinks.

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