A sheeple advises me that Dawkins and Harris are biased--recommends that I read D'Souza.

Little discussion today at work; we've been through it before. He has actually read Dawkins and Harris (and remains unwavering in his faith, definite proof of his irrationality), and he recommended this book to me, saying I should read it to get an less "biased" viewpoint:

"What's so Great about Christianity" by Dinesh D'Souza.

Description from Amazon: Is it reasonable to have faith in God? Can intelligent, educated people really believe what the Bible says? Or do the atheists have it right--has Christianity been disproven by science and discredited as a guide to morality? Best-selling author Dinesh D'Souza (The Enemy at Home; What's So Great about America) responds head-on to the anti-God arguments of prominent atheists such as Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, and Christopher Hitchens and defeats them on their own terms. What's So Great about Christianity provides believers with a straightforward tool kit for meeting the challenge of modern atheism and secularism; for nonbelievers, it offers a compelling apologetic that will challenge their assumptions and affirm that there really is something great about Christianity.

It's 368 pages, but it probably won't be hard to get through, at least to pick out the major flaws. I guess I'll do it, since he did read the books I recommended to him. I'm sure it won't do any good as far as convincing him of anything, but it might be interesting to hear what they think is a legitimate rebuttal to the atheists.

It is nice to see on Amazon that the 5-star reviewers say things about "how influential atheist ideas have become", etc. Yay! I'm glad they think so. ;-)

I'll report back later, it it's worth it. I suddenly remembered who this guy is; I think Hitch debated him. I'll have to check that out.

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Comment by Moonbeam on February 27, 2009 at 10:18pm
LOL, yes I know that, but we did it slightly different:

Here's the church (same thing as yours, but fingers on the outside)
Here's the steeple
Open the door
Where's the people? (it's empty!)

Down the street (run away with two fingers)
To the bar (same as a church, without the steeple, fingers on inside this time)
Open the doors
There they are!

Sounds good! Either one is good; I like both of them. Maybe one for the name and one in the explanation of the group. Or both: "Counter Christian Claims and Foiling Fundies". That might be too long tho.
Comment by Rosemary LYNDALL WEMM on February 27, 2009 at 8:36pm
Moonbeam, I recall a poem of my youth. Here it is, slightly modified.

There is the church [lace your fingers together and squash palms together]
And here is the steeple [extend the two index fingers upwards]
Open the door [extend thumbs outwards]
And here's all the sheeple [turn hands over and wiggle the laced fingers]

Since the group will be specifically about Christian apologetics that should be evident in the title.
How about Countering Christain Claims ? or Foiling Fundies?
Comment by Moonbeam on February 27, 2009 at 7:48pm
Rosemary, that sounds great. I'll join. Hmm, a name....I have sheeple on the brain, how about "Save the Sheeple". Because we want to save people from being misled. Of course there are no sheeple here, so that might not be good. Could just be more descriptive, like "Counter Arguments".

Harald--I know, I hardly think I need to read it now, I've got the main ideas already rebutted! But I ordered it already, I'll read as much as I can.
Comment by Harald Haugan on February 27, 2009 at 11:01am
Just checked out the link Rosemary provided, very helpful. More helpful than actually reading the book I think ;-) It's amazing what religious people will think of as "convincing proof" for their irrational thoughts...thinking I'm going to fall for it... *sighs*
Comment by Rosemary LYNDALL WEMM on February 26, 2009 at 6:58pm
It sounds as if it might be a good idea to start a group which concerns itself with the arguments and counter arguments to the main Christian Fundie apologetics books. Any takers? Ideas of a name?
Comment by Moonbeam on February 26, 2009 at 6:45pm
Dawn--I know, I read some about that guy today, ewwww.

cj--thanks! I'll get started on those.

Rosemary--thanks for the links you gave me; I looked at those and I already have a good idea where D'Souza is coming from. Sounds like, as usual, elaborate arguments that might mean something if they weren't based on inaccurate first assumptions.
Comment by Rosemary LYNDALL WEMM on February 26, 2009 at 4:21pm
Hitchens is not on form here. He misses many of D'Souza's points.
Comment by cj the cynic on February 26, 2009 at 12:53pm
Part 1 of 10 of the Hitchens / D'Souza debate

Comment by Dawn K on February 26, 2009 at 11:57am
ROFL at your title, literally ;). I haven't read any of his books, the snippets I've gathered here and there are enough. I don't think I could read the whole book without committing some kind of violence.
Comment by Moonbeam on February 26, 2009 at 6:27am
Rosemary--thanks, I'll check those out. It sounds like my work has already been done.

Creature--well, if that's the basis of his faith, that is pretty lame. It's so strange how some people can't separate what IS true from what they WANT to be true--it's like: god exists because otherwise I'm worried that we'll all start killing each other.

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