A building cannot assemble itself, there must be a builder. This proves god.

"Look at the perfection of design, that must suggest a designer"...or some similar argument is made by theists regularly and has become one of their church hymns. Many of them say that if a bomb goes off in a junkyard, that cannot create a fighter jet;Therefore a designer must exist for "creation.".....ummm ot really Mr. Theist.

One must be careful when debating this topic with theists as they have alot of holes they will try to suck you into.

Firstly, explain to Mr. Theist that junkyards, paintings and other man-made implements are not systems (biological or cosmical) hence they cannot assemble themselves. Evolution by natural selection however can produce a specie overtime. Explain to Mr. theist that lower life forms via natural selection, adapt to their surrounding environment hence slowly climbing "mount improbable." We have never seen bits of paper (for a painting) being assembled before our eyes but we have seen DNA being assembled many times even from non-living matter (Miller-Urey experiment as well as the more recent experiment done by the french scientist montonye see here:http://www.larouchepac.com/node/17802  shows chain links of amino acids and the basic components of life being formed through abiogenesis.) Furthermore, going by your own logic, who designed the designer? It is completely irrational to state that the designer is..."just there", as it blows a hole in your entire story.

 

A design does not mean there was a designer, as biological systems evolve via natural selection all on their own, this is fact.

 

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Comment by Antonio Chambers on June 1, 2011 at 11:44am
@Josehph ROFL Banana man is truly amazing. He and Kirk Cameron are so damn stupid. However Joseph, the banana was not developed through hybridization but "selective cultivation", but no need to get into the technicality of the matter. Ray comfort is a damn fool if i say so myself. And he walks around on the road videotaping "atheists" and asking them the origin of the universe and they can't answer. I WISH he'd come up to me. Id make him look like a damn fool. @Eric I get what you're saying  bro. You are technically still right in saying it is accidental, but it IS geared towards adaptation of the environment. So its umm...one of those things. lol
Comment by roland707 on June 1, 2011 at 9:14am
Antonio, I like the dice explanation, and that is in line with my understanding of evolutionary development. I stated 'things are accidental', I should have said 'can be random or accidental'. I tend to paraphrase and write like I would speak. I don't think it can be denied that there have been many, many accidents in development of the Earth and species. The electro-chemical reaction that first started life on the planet would be one. I also think many of evolution's dice hit one way or the other for species due to things they have no control over like habitat change. That's the element of randomness for me. Maybe natural selection is purposeful evolution for adapting to random change.
Comment by Yusuf Said on June 1, 2011 at 8:45am
This argument is a favorite of Ray Comfort (Also known as the banana man). He went on television a while back with Kurt Cameron (The "Growing Pains" child actor) and made the building and painting argument. He took it a step closer though and reasoned that since bananas fit perfectly in his hand, and have a wrapper that they must have been designed by god for man. Later in another interview he stated that god made dogs small enough to fit into cars and this was all proof of god's creation. He later found out that the modern banana was made by man through hybridization. As for the dog / car thing...even if there was a god would he say "Hey let me design this species of mammal small enough so that in 4.6 billion years time when the car is invented they will fit in them". I love listening to "Mr. Theist" arguments. lol
Comment by Antonio Chambers on May 31, 2011 at 7:12pm
thank you!
Comment by matt warren on May 31, 2011 at 6:41pm

hay chambers.....beutifull and simple argument.

very nicely done

;)

Comment by Antonio Chambers on May 31, 2011 at 6:35pm

HAHA Eric "a horshoe can't make a blacksmith" lol..good one creationists!!

 

However eric, you MUST be careful when stating that things are "accidental." Evolution via natural selection is far from accidental as certain DNA complexes must be preserved and continued in order for a specie to survive. If you do say it is completely accidental, you have handed over the reigns of the debate to the creationists. They will jump unto that idea and tell you that there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY that randomness and "accidents" could produce a specie.

 

Look at it this way. Lets say you have 6 dice. In order for a specie to develop, you have to throw a six on all 6 dice. Now if you pick up all 6 dice and throw the chances of getting a six on all 6 dice are astronomical and hence, technically impossible.

 

However, natural selection does not work like that. With evolution, you throw all 6 dice. Lets say the throw produces 1 six out of all six dice. Evolution via natural selection preserves that 1 dice and you are now left with 5 dice. On your next throw you might get 2 sixes, natural selection preserves those dice and you are now left with only 3 dice.!..and this cycle continues. Getting a six on all 6 dice using this method (natural selection) is now ABSOLUTELY achievable if not unavoidable.

 

LOL I hope you see where I'm going with this. I use this argument to shut up creationists when they bring up the "random chance" argument and it works 100% of the time!

Comment by roland707 on May 31, 2011 at 9:20am

People around here like to say "A horseshoe can't make a blacksmith!" That's because most of them pretend to be cowboys all the time. They just cannot accept that things are accidental. One of my friends asked me last week , referring to some inane occurrence "You believe everything happens for a reason, don't you?"  I said "No, I don't." He was stunned. Speechless, even.

BTW I think Antonio sure can stir up some mess with his awesome questions!

Comment by Antonio Chambers on May 30, 2011 at 8:07pm
Agreed. I didn't address that matter because I did a blog previously about it here http://www.atheistnexus.org/profiles/blogs/evolution-is-only-a-theory Thanks for the response
Comment by mike larson on May 30, 2011 at 7:14pm
Very well stated, however mister theist always responds with evolution isn't a fact, or science.
A theists understanding of evolution is so poor that a theological debate turns into a grade school biology lesson/debate.

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