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Debate: muslime vs. ex-muslim on omegle...
It's like they cannot understand basic logic.
Critics have fun, tell me what i did wrong. Cheers, jeers or whatever.
You: sweet
You: are you religious?
Stranger: yeah, i'm muslim, and you?
You: i used to be muslim
Stranger: you used to be muslim? and what happened?
You: i simply no longer believe in god
You: allah
You: yhwh
You: whatever you wish to call him
Stranger: and why's that?
You: no evidence
Stranger: can you prove he does not exist?
You: no. can you prove he exists?
Stranger: see, that's the thing, it always boils down to a choice (2 options), when you're given evidence he exists while you can't provide any evidence he doesn't exist, then which side wins? the one that has proofs
Stranger: i mean, it's like telling me hey... this is a lie, but i don't know the truth
Stranger: i mean, you gave me the negative side of the issue, but not the positive one
You: well let me clear things up
You: i don't neccesarily believe that he doesn't exist
You: i simply lack the belief that he does
Stranger: have you read the quran?
You: some, not much
You: but i have 3 at home
Stranger: well, lemme ask you this...
Stranger: do you think an illiterate man somewhere in the middle of a desert 1500 years ago would know anything about the mechanisms of the universe, or that it expands, or that mountains set the balance of this planet, or that the piercing star makes a sound like knocking when monitored from an observatory?
Stranger: seriously, can you believe such man can come up with all of this?
You: no
Stranger: see, that alone is a proof
You: no it is not
You: that prove either that that man was lucky, or that he had great insight
You: however
You: that still does not prove the existance of god
Stranger: oh, the man was lucky to bring current events in details 1500 years ago? you know, if a man like him who can't even read or write can come up with all of this, we should have had spaceships by now. and if you don't know, god does mention people like you. you can be given all the evidence in the world and still refuse to believe just because you want to follow your desires and lusts without guilt
Stranger: in the end, you should be honest with yourself
Stranger: and apparently you keep saying no without providing anything to argue with
Stranger: how are you going to debate when you don't have a point?
You: fair enough
You: question for you:
Stranger: okay
You: do you think god is omnipotent? (all able, all powerful)
Stranger: by nature, yes
You: do you think go is omniscient? (all knowing)
Stranger: yes
You: let me tell you a few contradictions with those statements
Stranger: shoot
You: can god learn?
Stranger: can god die? there are many things you can bring up to questioning, but you forgot on thing... god is not a physical matter like you are. for all we know, we don't even know ourselves
Stranger: makes sense?
Stranger: i mean, do you think he has a "brain" and... organs like us?
You: let me reapeate myself.
Can god learn?
see there are only two asnwers... yes or no.
if you say yes, and he is able to learn, than he was not omniscient to begin with.
if you say no, and he cannot learn, than he is not all powerful.
therefor omniscient and omnipotent is incompatible
Can god learn?
see there are only two asnwers... yes or no.
if you say yes, and he is able to learn, than he was not omniscient to begin with.
if you say no, and he cannot learn, than he is not all powerful.
therefor omniscient and omnipotent is incompatible
Stranger: ummm... you keep missing the point here... YOU learn what already is there, you even CREATE what already has been created
Stranger: learning is a result of thinking... aka using your brain
You: and god cannot think? therefor he is not omnipotent.
Stranger: again, thinking... define it... isn't it processing what your brain already sustains?
You: i do not have to define it, it is an action, if god is omnipotent then he can do it.... according to you anyways
Stranger: my point is... he doesn't even have to. but down to earth for a moment, your entire thoughts are based on your surroundings, either physical or paranormal, but can you go beyond that? for one thing, that's what yogis try to accomplish, depart from physical boundaries
Stranger: if you think god doesn't exist, then make your own infinite universe and make lifeforms manifest in it
You: of course he doesn't fkn have to he's GOD. but he still can. i dont have to tytpe this shit out for you a billion time, but i can. if god can do everything, whether or not he wants to, it should still make god damn sence!
Stranger: what makes sense is this... when you know it all, what is there for you to learn?
You: THAT'S MY POINT
Stranger: i was asking "for you"
You: omniscient and omnipotence cannot coexist
Stranger: that's my point
You: but earlier you said god was omniscient and omnipotent
Stranger: i was asking what is there for "YOU" to learn
Stranger: i was asking YOU
You: a lot, but im not god eh?
Stranger: how is there going to be anything to learn if you already know everything?
You have disconnected.
I couldn't take it anymore
Comment
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Comment by chris on June 29, 2010 at 11:39am -
I am atheist but the believer in this omegle chat could have said "god can't learn because he already knows everything"
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Comment by brant feivou on March 16, 2010 at 12:03am
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you are correct is pointing out that it is a logical fallacy for anything to be omnipotent and omniscient. I avoid using them because they lead to nasty circular arguments. Instead stick to holy scriptures. you need to plan on doing things like this. it like playing chess, know what you're going to say/ask and anticipate the answer. its the easiest way to corner your opponent. other then that you did awesome.
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"Stranger: seriously, can you believe such man can come up with all of this?
You: no"
if you accept the premise that he is illiterate then you lose. the "evidence" shows that ether he is illiterate and had supernatural help, or that the illiterate premise is false.
when compared , supernatural help, or a false premise, it is clear that one of them is silly.
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Comment by Sentient Biped on March 7, 2010 at 8:30am -
I'm glad you had the patience to discuss this with a beleiver. I would not have lasted so long!
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Comment by Spitter on March 7, 2010 at 8:22am -
"ummmm...you keep missing the point here..." classic stuff right here, classic. He was rapidly spiraling out of control in a bucket of quicksand, and he was sinking fast.
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