Many years ago I was dating a girl. One evening things between us were proceeding as they naturally do between two people who are attracted to each other. Things were quite hot and we were down to our underwear. I was removing her panties.

"Stop" she said. 

I did. We lay beside each other, eyes into eyes. A very intimate moment. She finished undressing me, with some unmentionable activity. I started to reciprocate.

"Stop" she said. 

It was our 6th date, we hadn't had sex yet. I don't believe there is value in rushing into sex so I wasn't concerned or frustrated except as to a desire to know what her thoughts were in that moment. I was a bit worried she might have suffered abuse. So we cooled off shared a smoke. We talked. I waited and listened. As I expected she brought the conversation back to her earlier stop preference. This is the part of the memory that is the most vivid.

She said, "I wanted you to, you know, go for it."

"But you were saying stop."

She squirmed a bit and put her hair behind her ear. "Yeah. I know.  But I didn't want you to."

I didn't have words then. She broke it off a few days later. I never discovered if she was abused or not. 

For years I've thought about this. I've gone through the whole gamut of reactions from confusion, then disgust, then acceptance. But never real understanding. Why desire forced sex? Do women want to be raped? Is this why some women place themselves in situations where a ethically bankrupt man can take advantage? If some women seek forced sex, why?

I don't have answers to these questions. 

According to Psychology Today, "From 1973 through 2008, nine surveys of women's rape fantasies have been published. They show that about four in 10 women admit having them (31 to 57 percent) with a median frequency of about once a month. Actual prevalence of rape fantasies is probably higher because women may not feel comfortable admitting them." [1]

I can almost understand or at least accept the idea of "I'm being forced and I enjoy it" fantasies. I presume that this is part of the BDSM culture. But the fantasy of "I'm being forced and I hate it" IS RAPE and is very prevalent in women. The degree to which I am appalled cannot be conveyed without strong euphemism and body language.

Dr. Michael J. Bader, author of Arousal: The Secret Logic of Sexual Fantasies, writes: "It is quite common that children who were abused grow up and develop sexual fantasies loosely based on their abuse. ... The adult indulging in a fantasy of sexual surrender or abasement is actually saying to her or himself: 'I'm recreating a terrifying or traumatic scene, but this time I'm in control because I'm scripting the scene ...'" [2]

The figures for rape fantasy and and childhood sexual assault don't really line up. [3] But on the other hand this kind of data is likely difficult to accurately obtain.

What influences a woman's desire for forced sex? What do you think the root causes of that fantasy are? Is indulging a woman's forced sex fantasy in a consensual way harmful to her or to society? Are there women who seek to be raped? I have opinions on this - I want to hear yours.

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Comment by Joan Denoo on July 16, 2014 at 4:56pm

Andrew, yes, men have different consequences than women. It is important that men express their fears, anxieties, opinions, hopes, dreams, disappointments, just as it is important for women to express theirs. 

The issue, it seems to me, is to be able to own one's own experiences without blaming others for what goes on inside ones's body. What is imposed on another, even the rape of men, is a different issue and needs to be addressed. I read a man's report of being raped and it was as devastating for him as it is for a woman. Being out of control of one's own body and imposed by another's actions has consequences that need to be faced. 

Men also have rights in the event of conception of a child and all too often mother and/or father fail to provide the safety the child needs to grow up. Woman has the right to choose whether her body will bear a child, and that is another issue altogether. No one, not even the father, has the right to dictate that choice for a woman. If you want a child that you conceived, then that is a decision that must be made before exposure. Man takes the risk of fathering a child he may or may not want; woman takes the risk of mothering a child in her body and that has consequences for the rest of their lives. 

Comment by Andrew Bradford Hoke on July 16, 2014 at 4:28pm

Joan, "Yes, girls say "No" when they really want penetration! Why do you even wonder about that? Consequences for girls impact in ways that boys are not. "

Men also get raped by women and face consequences women do not. A man gets raped, the woman later tells him they didn't conceive a child, but how does he know? After all, she's capable of rape. It's not hard to think that she is also capable of getting an abortion without his knowledge and lying about it.

Comment by Joan Denoo on July 16, 2014 at 3:58pm

I don't see why you get into the submissive/control rationale. Women have strong sexual desire. It isn't more complicated than that. Women know they pay a high price for being sexually active outside of marriage and therefore experience cognitive dissonance. What is so complicated about that? Why do men label women's dissonance as desire for her control over men? The problem is her mixed feelings about her body. 

How would you act if you wanted something so badly you would be willing to risk everything for it, and yet know that it is not the legal, or moral, or ethical, or sensitive, or sensable thing to do?  

Frankly, I am quite disappointed that men so easily blame women for evil intent when it comes to human sexuality. When I worked in a prison system through our local college, the men often blamed women for them having night dreams. How could women be responsible for what men's bodies experience? Women were outside the barbed wire, for goodness sakes. Men had arousals, not because of women, but because their male bodies have arousals.

Get off the blame game.

Comment by Joan Denoo on July 16, 2014 at 3:46pm

A fair question about a complex situation. Girls know what it is like to have sexual arousal, and you may or may not have fantasies about having consentual sex or forced sex. 

Females are no different than males. Young girls have very strong sexual desires. Any sensible girl knows the consequences of unprotected sex and so wants to stop. Girls also are aware of the strong sanctions against having sex outside of marriage in most families and cultures. Some males do not have that kind of pressure to restrain from sexual penetration. Do you have as strong a motive when you are faced with the choice to respond to sexual desires?

Yes, girls say "No" when they really want penetration! Why do you even wonder about that? Consequences for girls impact in ways that boys are not. 

The fact that you restrained from penetration is a mark of good character on your part. Had you proceeded after the "No' it would legally be rape. Self-discipline is necessary for both males and females when the costs are so high for both. 

Comment by Vasanth Ra on July 16, 2014 at 3:25pm

I don't see how you can possibly involve any woman into this discussion except if their answer is a blatant "no". Fantasy may need not be always favorable for reality and there is this possibility that she may change her opinion when it comes to reality. I believe, women in general, if not all, are comfortable in the submissive position under the proper man.

As men, it is really difficult to understand the exact nature of such a fantasy but with more exposure to views from different women we can get a rough idea of what it's nature is which seems quite difficult.

The submissive role of a woman in the BDSM activities could possibly be a derivate of the rape fantasies. I'm reminded of an incidence from the erotic novel of 'Fifty Shades of Grey' whose credibility in reality I am not sure.This Dom by the name Grey spanks the Sub very hard and she literally cries,hurting her physically and emotionally.Thereafter when he takes her, she admits the intensity of the pleasure.

Comment by Čenek Sekavec on July 15, 2014 at 5:58pm

Quite so Future. Thanks for clarifying.

I'm interested to hear more opinions on this issue, particularly from women if there are any that would like to opine.

Comment by Future on July 15, 2014 at 7:11am
I mean that's some serious ammunition, should she ever choose to use it. I've dated some women who turned out to be Jekyll and Hyde types. Imagine yourself on the wrong side of a lie detector, being asked "did the female ask you to stop?" It wouldn't matter at that point if she was fantasizing.
Comment by Čenek Sekavec on July 14, 2014 at 6:28pm

Future, please clarify what you mean

Comment by Future on July 14, 2014 at 1:44pm
Fuck that game. I got six words for you to consider: "officer, I told him to stop."
Comment by Michael Penn on July 14, 2014 at 10:36am

That makes sense to me ABH. There are other facinating stories of a young woman enticed up to the room of a celebrity, perhaps with a bit too much to drink. When the resulting incident is later reported as rape, we often see that the young lady had no desire to get rich or famous because of the event, so we wonder why it happened in the first place. Did she think that they were just going to play cards? I believe that she thought she would control the situation but it got out of hand. Control is a key word here. Women always want control, but they deny it openly. (My wife is one) In this respect the young woman wants to be able to brag and boast of her celebrity encounter later to friends, but feels compromised when it got out of control. She reports rape so as not to be viewed as a bad person.

As for the man in such situations, his mind told him it was all about sex from the beginning. Why else would the woman want to be alone with him?

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