I think it's amusing that Facebook and Family Bullshit can both use the initials "FB". That's all I seem to be getting lately. Here's the latest exchange I've had with my family.
My initial status read:
"The Bible sure is full of some crazy shit. Do believers really read this shit? If so, do they really understand this shit? Am I tripping? Am I feeling myself?"
It wasn't a very random thought. I was reading the Bible at the time (about the rape of Dinah, specifically) and my facebook newsfeed was chock full of statuses about the lord and Thanksgiving. I'll admit that maybe the status was a little inciteful BUT more and more I feel like every single belief isn't worthy of respect. No I don't know everything about the world. I'll probably never know whether there is or isn't SOME deity out there. BUT come on...this is Earth. Humans have existed long enough and recorded history long enough for us to say that the Bible (and most religious texts I've read) are just full of bullshit. Even if the Bible was a valid source of history, it's such a vile book with an equally vile deity that it's not worth our time and energy. Anyway the comments didn't exactly pour in (no skin off of my nose) and I didn't expect them to. I, however, was not prepared for my brother to chime in. Here's the exchange:
Rick: the world is full of crazy shit. do you believe it? if you wrote a book about the history of your world as you know it who would believe that? its the message in the stories not the stories. (our crazy born again christian sister took the time to like this status but not contribute her views)
Sean: You want messages? Read Aesop. I guarantee you won't get any stories of people being stoned for working. If I wrote a book on history from my point of view and wanted to include talking donkeys I'd at least be courteous enough to mention what I smoked beforehand. Virgin births, two of every animal, raining frogs...I live on Earth where that crazy shit doesn't happen but for some reason a ridiculous amount of people believe that crazy shit happens just not in a long...long time.
Rick: so mans interpretation got a little screwed up. the message is love plain and simp (ol' sis was a fan of this succinct explanation)
Rick: the stories make a great read thou. aesop has morals not a message. and erething on earth is not always cut and dried believable keep living (this one got the crazy sister seal of approval also)
Sean: Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12)
If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13)
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27)
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15)
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10)
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13)
Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21)
Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18)Sean: I could go on and on...Old Testament God...New Testament God, it doesn't matter. Messages of love my ass. Statements like that take me ALLLLLLLLLLLLL the way back to the beginning and make me ask yet again "do people actually READ about what they say they believe and if they do, do they UNDERSTAND it?" If it makes someone feel better, fine. Some people feel better after they've had their penis in a child's butthole but that doesn't make it right. It's a great read, no doubt. Dad always said it was the greatest book ever written. (let it be known that I do not advocate child abuse...as if that even needs to be said)
Rick: just like anything else people interpret the bible in thhousands of ways as the koran and any other text of meaning. the trick is to read between the lines and use your third eye to see. if it were abc123 and erebody got an easy meaning what choice in that? that you can question is beautiful rite of choice science cant provide logic cant explain. like any book or movie or song the story is the sum and not the parts. and the sum is love that all we got. and i dont know if a child rapist feels good or not but they should feel like the lowest shit scum vomit slime ever and it is not good even if a sick fuck thinks it is
Sean: Koran, Torah, Bhagavad Gita, Book of Mormon...they all have varying levels of nonsensical bullshit in them. I wouldn't expect anything else considering most of them are altered versions of even older religious texts. Read between the lines...ok...so a God made us imperfect and to show us the way he gave us a book that can't be interpreted properly??? What sense does that make? This is supposed to be an ALL-POWERFUL being and he can't even control the shit he created. There's no "kinda all-powerful" or "almost all-powerful", you either are or you're not. Bible says God used to intervene pretty often. He wiped out the entire world minus 8 people when he got sick of them, he intervened in Sodom and Gomorrah...but here we are in 2011 and little kids are getting raped with no intervention. Our ancestors were brutalized for hundreds of years, where was the intervention by the "all-powerful", "all-knowing" creator? As far as I'm concerned, believing the Bible is a slap in the face to our ancestors...but that's just me reading between the lines.
Oh right...all of the negative that happens...that's not God, that's man and Satan. Bullshit. Obviously nobody can get the interpretation right since there are so many branches of Christianity. Nobody seems able to figure it out! Maybe because it's just shit. Like trying to understand a crackhead's ramblings, there might be some meaning underneath but who the hell would know? I disagree about the sum being the most important in this case. If people are going to base their life on it and let it affect who they socialize with, what they eat, how they raise their children, how they vote, etc. then every single piece counts. That was my biggest issue when I was in church. Very few take it as seriously as it should be. If you believe it's the word of God, live by it...ALL OF IT. Ain't no half steppin. (the fact that this is even being debated blows my mind)
Sean: "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?"
(shout out to Epicurus!)
Rick: if you get stuck on ugliness its hard to see beauty. if you are a stickler for details or want to be in on all aspects of Gods plans you are tilting at windmills. if your orderly mind cant make sense of chaos confusion reigns. but if you can tune out your fine tuned reasoning and watch a sunrise or the birth of a child or even a storm and you still dont see the power greater than you then what can i tell you? im not a bible scholar or even belong to a church but ive seen the hand at work. and theres the rub its a belief system. we have free will and that encompasses our belief or lack thereof. but dont let your penchant for nice reasonable stories[like fables] to blind you to all wonders that defy clean neat explanations (Choosy brainwashed sisters choose this status!)
Sean: "I'm not a bible scholor or even belong to a church..."
Then why even comment? If you commented because you label yourself as a believer, all you had to do was answer with "No I don't read it" which would mean "No I don't understand it". There's no shame in that. The size and word selection makes it a bit of a boring read. But what do you believe in??? The god in the christian bible? If so, the "I'm not a bible scholar or even belong to a church" statement condemns you to hell, plain and simple. I took the time to throw out a lot of examples (and I have many many more) of the ugly in it...WHERE is the beauty you speak of? Babies being born is a part of nature. Dogs do it and yet they don't seem to attribute it to a god. It's an ugly and vile book that NOBODY should follow. It's meant to be a guide to how to live your life and it does a shitty job.
"If you get stuck on ugliness its hard to see beauty." How much ugliness needs to be there before you realize it trumps any semblance of beauty that may be there? I'm wasting my time anyway. I assumed you hadn't read the text when you commented the first time but I decided to give the benefit of the doubt. I wouldn't presume to make such a bold statement WITHOUT having a decent grasp on the text in question. Anyone following this back and forth, feel free to chime in. I was hoping to hear from someone that at least has read it in the beginning. Anybody else DEFINITELY isn't going to get it. (C'mon...stop lurking sis...I know you're following the thread)Sean: I could make up the most ridiculous biblical tales (wouldn't even need to, thank God) and you would have no way of knowing that I was talking out of my ass because you haven't even taken the time to read the book that's the basis for your beliefs. Or I could point out all of the "positive" aspects and you'd never know the full story for the same reason. Both are ignorant. If you believe, read the book because you're not going to gain true knowledge any other way. I don't let anybody think for me and I don't let anyone try to trample my "God-given" system of logic. If I say the Bible is full of crazy shit and anyone that can believe it has been brainwashed, I'm not talking out of my ass. Don't take my word for it though...http://www.biblegateway.com/
Read it for yourself and then talk to me about it.