yes i am back and will be responding in a few days ... just a little busy setting things up

tarik basha,

i am leaving egypt for business and will be back in a week, so excuse me for postponing my reply till i come back .. see you soon dude

Hello Tariq,

If i am an atheist from Palestine i will try and do what people like Mustafa Kamal did during the UK occupation in Egypt.

In my comment At 7:32am on April 15, 2010, Mohamed Zaki said… i told you that i am completely against closing of the borders, and i repeat it again i am against that.

I disagree with you that the Egyptian government is secular. It is not secular or religious they are just NOTHING they do not know what they are and they are hopeless. I hope you understand me know.

I do completely agree that Israel does not want peace and they always put hurdles on the way of peace, in my humble opinion that is because of the pressure of the religious right in their politics. Fateh who try and establish peace are accused of being traitors and those who try and establish peace from the isreali side are assassinated like rabin

I find it very sad that after our long discussion you think that i am echoing western propaganda but i hope you will take time to re read my comments and understand what i mean.. if i am not clear in any place please tell me..

Please also answer my questions in the comment At 7:30am on April 15, 2010, Mohamed Zaki said… if you do not want tell me..

If Palestianisn want their country back then suicide bombers will not do the trick, killing civilians does not help the cause the power of israeli media is far stronger than that of the Palestinians, Establishing media out lets and making it clear that their war is only for the land accepting to divide the land and have Jerusalem under the UN control.

The above terms in my humble opinion must be accepted from both sides but both are religiously motivated and again you can not reason with belief. Isreal actually believes that solomons temple is under alaqsa mosque (you can not reason with this), if muslims believed that the kabaa is under a jewish temple you will not be able to reason with them either.

I am completely against Egypt closing the borders of Gaza, i hear the following in the egyptian news but i highly doubt its real if you have information please share.. "That the hamas guys are not allowing palestanians to cross to Egypt"
You Said: "As for the conflict in Palestine: From a totally non-religious view, this is a colonization imposed by the western powers at the end of WWII."

The only reasons why they chose that part of the planet to establish israel are the reasons you find in the torah and the old testament. By the way the spanish inquistion was Christian. I am unaware of Alegria but let me tell you about Egypt.

In the 1890 till 1920 while Egypt was under the british rule there started to appear egyptians like Qassim Amin, abbas al akkad, Mohamed Abduh, Abdel Raziq and more they were all basically secularists who were almost all called infidels. British soliders used to rape egyptian women and they used to get bombed in the street but if you think that this was the way Egypt got its freedom then you are wrong.

Please read about the efforts of Mustafa Kamal, the 1919 Revolution that was non violent and its results where attained in 1922.

In 1948 King Farouq of Egypt led a war against the establishment of israel and Egypt at that time was still colonized.

Tariq, Nationalism, Racism or what ever they have solutions religions do not, you can not reason with beliefs.

May i know your opinion about

1. Mohamed the muslim "prophet" pedophile?
2. The Muslim pilgrimage ?
3. The story of Jesus, Horus, Mithra and Krishna?
4. Wahabism?
5. Will you prefer a secular state in saudi arabia?

I was just wondering.. what you think about these as well..

You Said:
"Fresh from the news, British soldiers raping Kenyan women AND CHILDREN. Did they do that in the name of the Christ?"

I agree with you on one thing only that human nature is like shit, If we will pick up news like the one you stated above from Sept. 2003 and we can also talk about March 2010 Muslims killing every one in Nigeria and christians killing muslims a little before that and muslims killing christians in upper egypt last month.. so lets not pick news articles across the internet, its immature.

Yes Religious wars take longer time, i hope the following will pass through your head

1. A stupid merciless atheist asshole killing people - its over when hez dead (Pol Pot, Hilter etc. I am not defending them)
2. The waring states of China - it limited by the boundaries of the states (china, ancient egypt etc.)
3. Racist wars - end by education and establishing a secular state (United States is a good example - there are still conflicts between blacks and whites but hey that is solved as the country is secualr, while in a place like south africa its still there..)
4. Religious wars , Abrahamic religions (Have no boundaries or time limit until the whole world is under their control)

Why in your opinion are the Christian right wingers, conservatives in the united states supporting israel? Its because they believe that when Israel takes the whole west bank and Jerusalem the rapture will start and Jesus will return? Tell me how can you reason with people like that? How can you reason with hamas who are waiting for stones and trees to talk? How can you reason with Israels who think that they are promised from the Nile to the Euphrates

Good Morning Devil, I think you missed my point completely in my previous comment i told you that 100s of millions died NOT for religion and of course i know about Saddam and i know what the British did here in Egypt and other countries and Italians did in Libya and French in Algeria. My point is when wars are fought for nationalistic, colonial or other reasons than religious they end. But wars fought for religions do not, they may pause but the threat always remain. Like the ring wing Christians in the United States for example who want to reestablish Israel take the West Bank and Jerusalem as they believe that Jesus will not come till then. Why did Israel establish a state in this part of the world its just because they have a 3000 (or more) year old book that said they must. Hamas guys will never stop fighting till stones and trees speak and say there is Jew come and kill him.

While in all wars nationalistic or colonial they end without the threat of reappearing the British can not come and claim Egypt is theirs now.

I hope i made my point clear.

Yeah ofcourse ibn Sina and ibn rushd both did a great job, but one was called infidel and the other had his books burnt. Hypatia Theon was working pretty well but she got killed, The mayas where real good builders but once they gave all their time to the gods and ignored reality the civilization fell apart. So in my opinion the possibility of religions creating civilizations is possible but it always falls at the end. While for secular societies the possibility of change is always there, in WW2 100s of millions died not for religion but in 60 years you don't have any real hatred between the UK and Germany for instance. While if we look at Israel and Palestine like come on.. i never see a solution every one is working for their god.

I was just thinking that religious societies may work for some time but not for long as they are incapable for changing..

I did read about the council of nicea by the way.. although i really am not a big fan of islam, but i think there is hope it if we try and understand the works of thinkers like hassan hanafi, nasr hamid, farag fouda and sayed al-qimni. the islamic golden age was a wonderful time where atheists, deists muslims all lived together in peace what do you think about that?