Devil's Advocate
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Devil's Advocate replied to Anthony Hall's discussion Why should an atheist care about the environment?
"You know, there exists other religions and other cultures on this planet. I bet, the tribes living in the middle Amazonian forest might care about the environment despite believing in some afterlife or some god. This is simply because they are…"
Apr 21, 2010
Devil's Advocate replied to Anthony Hall's discussion Why should an atheist care about the environment?
"The selfish Multinational corporations can get away with it despite the hostility they sometime encounter and continue to plunder, pollute and destroy many poor countries. See "The confessions of an economic hitman" and other references…"
Apr 21, 2010
Devil's Advocate replied to Anthony Hall's discussion Why should an atheist care about the environment?
"What I replied was about the U.S. being a secular state, which I think it is mostly. "The fact remains that while christian (or other religious) thinking diminishes the importance of terrestrial life" Well, linking the belief of an…"
Apr 21, 2010
Devil's Advocate replied to Anthony Hall's discussion Why should an atheist care about the environment?
"What do Buddhists, Muslims, Confucianism, Hindus have to say about the environment? I mean, if we are to generalize, we should have a broader perspective. Note that the cultural aspects of other Christians in the world may influence their thoughts…"
Apr 21, 2010
Devil's Advocate replied to Anthony Hall's discussion Why should an atheist care about the environment?
""If it works that way for enough other people, there's your humanistic basis for morality." Well, it seems to me that there is not enough such people. A simple look at what the richest on this planet do to the poorest is enough…"
Apr 21, 2010
Devil's Advocate replied to Anthony Hall's discussion Why should an atheist care about the environment?
"What I have learned through age and experience is that things are rarely black or white but mostly gray. In fact, life is made of a combination of different colors and shapes (this is a figure of speech to describe diversity in all aspects of life).…"
Apr 21, 2010
Devil's Advocate replied to Jay Pea's discussion God vs. Cliches
"You will not be there to see it and even less to be bothered."
Apr 19, 2010
Devil's Advocate replied to Anthony Betters's discussion How do you deal with religious friends?
"Man, is it that difficult to figure out. Just tell him that you do not believe in God and do not wish to participate in reading the Bool of Eli or the like. What the heck?"
Apr 19, 2010
Devil's Advocate replied to Jay Pea's discussion God vs. Cliches
"What kind of maniacs are you guys? I mean you want to beat the shit out of a guy because he dared pronounce words of "atheist blasphemy"?"
Apr 19, 2010
Devil's Advocate replied to Jay Pea's discussion God vs. Cliches
"I would suggest you to write a testament requesting your body to be recycled and used as fertilizer. No need to waste precious natural resources on costly and environmentally damaging funerals."
Apr 19, 2010
Devil's Advocate replied to Anthony Hall's discussion Why should an atheist care about the environment?
"Who would give a shit if "we, a bunch of carbon atoms" are not there anymore, "on a sandy beach contemplating our own existence". "this pale blue dot" on which we live is of utmost importance"...ha ha ha said who?…"
Apr 19, 2010
Devil's Advocate replied to Anthony Hall's discussion Why should an atheist care about the environment?
"Here is a guy who is consistent with his conviction. I do respect that!"
Apr 19, 2010
Devil's Advocate replied to Anthony Hall's discussion Why should an atheist care about the environment?
"because they too might care about a good life for their children, friends and so on. I mean, did you really confirm objectively that all religious people do not care about the environment? I am just asking for a bit of rationality in here. Being an…"
Apr 19, 2010
Devil's Advocate replied to Anthony Hall's discussion Why should an atheist care about the environment?
"Well, the fact that all theists do not care about the environment (which is debatable) should have no influence on your opinion. From an economic point of view, polluting represents an externality, meaning that people will continue to pollute as…"
Apr 19, 2010
Devil's Advocate replied to Prefer Not to Say's discussion Why against death penalty?
"Falterer said: "People's respect for the sanctity of life dwindles in such an environment." Sanctity - Etymology: Middle English saunctite, from Anglo-French sainteté, from Latin sanctitat-, sanctitas, from sanctus sacred. If…"
Apr 19, 2010
Devil's Advocate joined Dr. Terence Meaden's group
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ORIGINS: UNIVERSE, LIFE, HUMANKIND, AND DARWIN

We debate origins of the Universe, life, Earth, humans, religion, atheism, using common sense, evolution, cosmology, geology, archaeology, and other sciences, to repel biblical creationism and other religious beliefs.
Apr 19, 2010

Comment Wall (14 comments)

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At 9:08am on May 3, 2010, Mohamed Zaki said…
yes i am back and will be responding in a few days ... just a little busy setting things up
At 11:47am on April 19, 2010, Mohamed Zaki said…
tarik basha,

i am leaving egypt for business and will be back in a week, so excuse me for postponing my reply till i come back .. see you soon dude
At 12:15pm on April 16, 2010, Mohamed Zaki said…
Hello Tariq,

If i am an atheist from Palestine i will try and do what people like Mustafa Kamal did during the UK occupation in Egypt.

In my comment At 7:32am on April 15, 2010, Mohamed Zaki said… i told you that i am completely against closing of the borders, and i repeat it again i am against that.

I disagree with you that the Egyptian government is secular. It is not secular or religious they are just NOTHING they do not know what they are and they are hopeless. I hope you understand me know.

I do completely agree that Israel does not want peace and they always put hurdles on the way of peace, in my humble opinion that is because of the pressure of the religious right in their politics. Fateh who try and establish peace are accused of being traitors and those who try and establish peace from the isreali side are assassinated like rabin

I find it very sad that after our long discussion you think that i am echoing western propaganda but i hope you will take time to re read my comments and understand what i mean.. if i am not clear in any place please tell me..

Please also answer my questions in the comment At 7:30am on April 15, 2010, Mohamed Zaki said… if you do not want tell me..
At 7:33am on April 15, 2010, Mohamed Zaki said…
If Palestianisn want their country back then suicide bombers will not do the trick, killing civilians does not help the cause the power of israeli media is far stronger than that of the Palestinians, Establishing media out lets and making it clear that their war is only for the land accepting to divide the land and have Jerusalem under the UN control.

The above terms in my humble opinion must be accepted from both sides but both are religiously motivated and again you can not reason with belief. Isreal actually believes that solomons temple is under alaqsa mosque (you can not reason with this), if muslims believed that the kabaa is under a jewish temple you will not be able to reason with them either.
At 7:32am on April 15, 2010, Mohamed Zaki said…
I am completely against Egypt closing the borders of Gaza, i hear the following in the egyptian news but i highly doubt its real if you have information please share.. "That the hamas guys are not allowing palestanians to cross to Egypt"
You Said: "As for the conflict in Palestine: From a totally non-religious view, this is a colonization imposed by the western powers at the end of WWII."

The only reasons why they chose that part of the planet to establish israel are the reasons you find in the torah and the old testament. By the way the spanish inquistion was Christian. I am unaware of Alegria but let me tell you about Egypt.

In the 1890 till 1920 while Egypt was under the british rule there started to appear egyptians like Qassim Amin, abbas al akkad, Mohamed Abduh, Abdel Raziq and more they were all basically secularists who were almost all called infidels. British soliders used to rape egyptian women and they used to get bombed in the street but if you think that this was the way Egypt got its freedom then you are wrong.

Please read about the efforts of Mustafa Kamal, the 1919 Revolution that was non violent and its results where attained in 1922.

In 1948 King Farouq of Egypt led a war against the establishment of israel and Egypt at that time was still colonized.

Tariq, Nationalism, Racism or what ever they have solutions religions do not, you can not reason with beliefs.
At 7:30am on April 15, 2010, Mohamed Zaki said…
May i know your opinion about

1. Mohamed the muslim "prophet" pedophile?
2. The Muslim pilgrimage ?
3. The story of Jesus, Horus, Mithra and Krishna?
4. Wahabism?
5. Will you prefer a secular state in saudi arabia?

I was just wondering.. what you think about these as well..

You Said:
"Fresh from the news, British soldiers raping Kenyan women AND CHILDREN. Did they do that in the name of the Christ?"

I agree with you on one thing only that human nature is like shit, If we will pick up news like the one you stated above from Sept. 2003 and we can also talk about March 2010 Muslims killing every one in Nigeria and christians killing muslims a little before that and muslims killing christians in upper egypt last month.. so lets not pick news articles across the internet, its immature.

Yes Religious wars take longer time, i hope the following will pass through your head

1. A stupid merciless atheist asshole killing people - its over when hez dead (Pol Pot, Hilter etc. I am not defending them)
2. The waring states of China - it limited by the boundaries of the states (china, ancient egypt etc.)
3. Racist wars - end by education and establishing a secular state (United States is a good example - there are still conflicts between blacks and whites but hey that is solved as the country is secualr, while in a place like south africa its still there..)
4. Religious wars , Abrahamic religions (Have no boundaries or time limit until the whole world is under their control)

Why in your opinion are the Christian right wingers, conservatives in the united states supporting israel? Its because they believe that when Israel takes the whole west bank and Jerusalem the rapture will start and Jesus will return? Tell me how can you reason with people like that? How can you reason with hamas who are waiting for stones and trees to talk? How can you reason with Israels who think that they are promised from the Nile to the Euphrates
At 6:13am on April 14, 2010, Mohamed Zaki said…
Good Morning Devil, I think you missed my point completely in my previous comment i told you that 100s of millions died NOT for religion and of course i know about Saddam and i know what the British did here in Egypt and other countries and Italians did in Libya and French in Algeria. My point is when wars are fought for nationalistic, colonial or other reasons than religious they end. But wars fought for religions do not, they may pause but the threat always remain. Like the ring wing Christians in the United States for example who want to reestablish Israel take the West Bank and Jerusalem as they believe that Jesus will not come till then. Why did Israel establish a state in this part of the world its just because they have a 3000 (or more) year old book that said they must. Hamas guys will never stop fighting till stones and trees speak and say there is Jew come and kill him.

While in all wars nationalistic or colonial they end without the threat of reappearing the British can not come and claim Egypt is theirs now.

I hope i made my point clear.
At 10:50am on April 13, 2010, Mohamed Zaki said…
Yeah ofcourse ibn Sina and ibn rushd both did a great job, but one was called infidel and the other had his books burnt. Hypatia Theon was working pretty well but she got killed, The mayas where real good builders but once they gave all their time to the gods and ignored reality the civilization fell apart. So in my opinion the possibility of religions creating civilizations is possible but it always falls at the end. While for secular societies the possibility of change is always there, in WW2 100s of millions died not for religion but in 60 years you don't have any real hatred between the UK and Germany for instance. While if we look at Israel and Palestine like come on.. i never see a solution every one is working for their god.

I was just thinking that religious societies may work for some time but not for long as they are incapable for changing..
At 7:06am on April 13, 2010, Mohamed Zaki said…
I did read about the council of nicea by the way.. although i really am not a big fan of islam, but i think there is hope it if we try and understand the works of thinkers like hassan hanafi, nasr hamid, farag fouda and sayed al-qimni. the islamic golden age was a wonderful time where atheists, deists muslims all lived together in peace what do you think about that?
At 7:03am on April 13, 2010, Mohamed Zaki said…
Hellos Devil,

I am not actually a militant atheist as in my opinion no body has all the truth and i do agree with you on that. If i will have to define myself i go with agnostic atheist.

There probably is something outside our space and time, but we do not have any ways of proving or disproving "it". Even believing in a form of a deistic god does not help. Simply because we have no means of knowing.

I do have a problem with religions as they assume absolutes and force people on following them, i mean look at our countries.. i think the main reason for our backwards is religion and militant systems (secular or religious) but in any case its a religious mind set of thinking that i am right and all the rest are wrong.

It does not mean that i want to see a world without religion as the world is not mine alone, but the only ones left who want the world to work on their own system are the religious.

When i read the quran, the bible and other holy books i always get a feeling that man was in crisis of organizing the society and the best solution they came up with were books that they claimed came from gods. But in mans quest to self organize we just gave our selves a brain halt and i do think that believing that there is a god or gods out side space and time just does not help and no one can prove or disprove it as you said...
 
 
 

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