Comment

Comment by Loren Miller on April 7, 2013 at 7:53pm

Don't need hell, really.  All we need is this:

1. Arrest them
2. Try them
3. Convict them
4. Most importantly, Put Them In the General Prison Population

Hell will seem tame, given those conditions.

Comment by Philip Jarrett on April 7, 2013 at 7:34pm

I am not a Catholic Atheist, I'm a Prostentant Atheist. I was raised in a Southern anti-Catholic, antisemitic, rascist, and non-denomiational church.  Literature on sexual malfeasance of priests and nuns was a part of my daily experience just as I first read the Protocols of the Elder's of Zion as the truth about the worldwide Jewish conspiracy and that Martin Luther King wasn't a 'real Christian'...just like President Obama isn't to this day by these people.  

Growing up in the home of a self-ordained preacher and suffering sexual, physical, psychological and mental abuse by my father, my mother and my only brother...being considered the 'problem child' for having what I know now to have been a perfectly normal sexual life...being victimized then blamed for the 'problem' of me being normal in a family of people sick and twisted by their religion.

At least when a priest abuses you he's a 'spiritual' father in name only and not your biological father.

Prison for predatory priests?  Of course.  Just as a priest who robs a liquor store should be...and has a lot better chance of being... held accountable for his crime.

People who cover up for the crime of another aren't 'protecting', that's too kind and inaccurate.  They are accomplices, before and after, to the crime.  They are co-conspirators.  The same racketeering laws used against the Mafia should be applied.  Their crime is worse because they cannot even hide behind the rubric of sociopathological mental illness.  What they do is cold-blooded and without excuse.

Jail them, if you can.  Put them away from polite society in a place where they cannot ruin the lives of innocent children.  A 'No-Kill' shelter would be an apt analogy if it wasn't offensive to the animals to lump them together with these creatures.

But the brutal fact is you cannot even get these virginfuckers to admit they've done anything wrong.

God, I miss believing in Hell!

Comment by Dogly on March 22, 2013 at 10:12am

Thank you Joan for your kind reply.  Since we veered from the subject of imprisoning priests, I sent you a personal note elsewhere.

Comment by Joan Denoo on March 21, 2013 at 10:36pm

ooppss. That should have been: support of victims of crimes is one step. 

Comment by Joan Denoo on March 21, 2013 at 10:34pm

Problem predatory priests abuse our children and must be stopped. Further, they must be held accountable for their crimes. Now, how does one support that effort while not personally affected by it. Obviously, letters in support of victims of crimes is one stop, and gathering petitions for changes at the legislative level is another. Speaking out and joining with others in support of accountability and making our demands for transparency understood. Withholding  funds to churches is for others to do since I am an atheist and have not supported church activity for years; however, I can make my thinking known in a public and private way.  

Comment by Joan Denoo on March 21, 2013 at 10:25pm

Darn it Dogly, you are right! Being in the matrix, I did't question and I should have. Good for you for standing up to me and challenging me on my value system. You are absolutely correct. Thank you very much.

I was born into a farming family and spent part of my life living above a butcher shop; I went daily to the slaughter house and did my chores. I don't have the sensitivity to cruelty that I can now develop.

Yes, I participated in animal experiments. I observed as animals sufferd. I caused some animals to suffer. For that I was wrong. Your powerful words, sharp rebuke and clear expression of disdain has my attention and my respect. Thank you. 

Comment by Dogly on March 21, 2013 at 10:34am

You say "we" still use these training techniques.  No, not "we".  I spend my life trying to stop you. You are not "pleased"?  You say these studies were "forced", and that your husband also "had to" .  No, you each chose to abuse and torture sentient beings for your own interests.  There is an ethical answer.  But ethics are required to choose it.  Less selfishness and more compassion and empathy would help.  If something is cruel, the fact that it is useful to you does not make it ethical.  No excuses!

Comment by Joan Denoo on March 20, 2013 at 1:55pm

Dogly, yes, we did, and they still do use these training techniques. I am not pleased about that; I learned first hand how easily depression can be taught. It opened my eyes to the whimpers I used to hear from both my grandmothers and mother. Depression,  anxiety and learned helplessness go together.

When I received my training, research on prisoners of war from WW II, Korean War and Viet Nam war were forcing studies of depression and its causes. Basic research on pigeons, dogs, monkeys, octopus, fish, helped to broaden understanding of the links between the brain and body, heredity, environmental stresses and physical pain.

When my former husband was in dental school he had to learn how to use anesthesia and they used dogs. Well, would you rather he learn on human beings? What is the moral answer? What alternatives are there?

Torture? Yes! Do we need to repeat torturing any living thing to understand depression or learned helplessness or anxiety? No, watching films demonstrates the principles.  

Sorry, I couldn't find any of the films used in my training, and maybe it is just as well. It is heartbreaking to watch a baby monkey deprived of mother love clutch to a piece of carpet for comfort. 

Learned Helplessness

Dr. Aaron Beck: Brief History of Depression Research

Comment by Dogly on March 18, 2013 at 5:56pm

Making animals depressed IS a torture technique.

Comment by Joan Denoo on March 18, 2013 at 2:54pm

Correction: All we had to do was take away their ability to have control over their own lives and take away their ability to predict what was happening to them.

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