Politics, Economics, and Religion

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Politics, Economics, and Religion

Religion has so many connections to political and economic beliefs, there needs to be a place to identify linkages, problems, goals, options, action plans and evaluation criteria.  

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What is the purpose of life?

An eternal question, what is the purpose of life?, occupied philosophers’ thoughts throughout history. Stone pictographs reveal even primitive peoples reflected on this query. Each one has the capacity to define his or her personal thinking about politics, economics and religion.

Discussion Forum

An Open Letter to Congressman John Boehner

Started by Loren Miller. Last reply by Joan Denoo on Friday. 1 Reply

Some days ago, Congressman John Boehner (R - Ohio) wrote an op-ed piece entitled, "…Continue

Tags: president, Barack Obama, sue, John Boehner

Tomgram: Engelhardt, The Age of Impunity

Started by Joan Denoo. Last reply by Plinius Jul 14. 4 Replies

TomDispatch  http://t.co/nKYjnph4Ke"For America’s national security state, this is the age of impunity.  …Continue

Why we're headed for another Great Crash

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Joan Denoo Jul 2. 1 Reply

Thom Hartmann makes a case that we're driving the economy to another Great Crash.The denial of fundamental economic principles is setting the world up for another Great Crash.... corporate banks have ... discovered that instead of lending money to…Continue

Tags: financialization

Climate Politics of US State Governors

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Casey Pittman Jul 3. 1 Reply

Is the governor of your state suckling at the fossil fuel industry teat, while climate disasters whack citizens? As a Pennsylvanian, I'm ashamed to say mine is.... over 77 percent of all oil and gas contributions are being funneled to governors who…Continue

Tags: , , Extreme weather disasters, Change, Climate, State Governors

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Comment by booklover on September 18, 2012 at 2:00pm

Robert.  A woman who lives and breathes on her own trumps an embryo that can't. PERIOD.  And since you are not a woman, you don't even need to worry about it.  Someone else's body is NEVER YOUR CHOICE. EVER. EVER. EVER. 

Comment by Joan Denoo on September 18, 2012 at 1:56pm

Robert, when you wrote, "pro-abortion folks conveniently forget the human life in the woman and only focus on the mothers rights", I understand your angst and a part of me feels the same way. BUT, the consequences to a woman for having an unplanned and/or unwanted pregnancy is overwhelming. Just stop and think about it for a minute; It takes more than a woman being pregnant, and if she is alone, or if she has no means of support during the pregnancy and raising a child, or if she conceived from a blood relative, or from an attacker, why would you want to subject a woman to those challenges? Do you have any idea what it would be like to be caught in such circumstances? Or even the very human situation of being carried away by passion, forgetting consequences, leaves terrible options. What about the woman who has more than she can handle, for whatever reason and doesn't want to be pregnant? I know! She has the responsibility to think before she conceives, but let's get real here; did you think before you released your sperm? Do most men? 

It would be so nice if every woman had a loving partner, had access to resources of food, shelter, health care, in order to meet basic needs, and had resources for family planning, but can you honestly stand in judgment of a woman who lacks any of these resources? 

I am anti-abortion for myself, but each woman has to decide for herself and has the right to do so without permission from anyone or   being shamed by those who have their right to choose. I stand for woman's right to make decisions about her own body. If you are troubled by the thought of killing an unborn child, well, get over it; life happens while making other plans. 

Comment by Loren Miller on September 18, 2012 at 10:02am

Sorry, Robert, what you're talking about still amounts to removing a right granted to women - that of controlling their own bodies.  Insofar as I'm concerned, the whole issue of fetus viability is a smokescreen to equate viability with person-hood, and it won't wash.  Ultimately, the aim is to stop abortion altogether, to illegalize it, and from where I sit, that's an unachievable task.

Why?  For openers, I remember before Roe v. Wade.  I remember jokes about coat hangers which weren't funny and back-alley procedures which frequently took the life of the mother, never mind people of means (read: MONEY) who went to Scandinavia to get their abortions with zero fuss raised on this side of the puddle.  I also note with interest that even Italy, the home of Vatican City and of Humanae Vitae and all the crap which comes with the church, even there, a woman has a CHOICE.

Sure, you can overturn Roe, even with what should be stare decisis status.  You won't stop abortions, not so long as there is a demand for them.

Comment by Robert Brown on September 18, 2012 at 9:43am

Loren, that is why there should be discussion and argument over the issue and not just shouting down somebody as a bigot. You say a woman has a sole right to determine what goes on with her body, I agree.  But you fail to see that the unborn woman in a womb has the sole right to determine what happens to her body as well, including whether she is aborted or not.

With medical technology increasing, a baby or fetus if you prefer has greater and greater viability to survive at an earlier time outside of the womb.  So if it can live outside of the womb, how is it not its own individual with individual rights?

That is the real argument conservatives make, religious or not. It suprises me how many liberals truly believe that conservatives are actually sitting around discussing how to take rights away from women when we are just trying to give rights to those without a say in the matter.

Can you not see the parallels to women once not having rights in society to children or the unborn not having them now? It isn't just a religious control over women issue.

Shoot, even pets are getting rights these days, I mean furry companions :)

And my conservative views on abortion are not the only ones I have been called a bigot over. Many of the liberal viewpoints I disagree with.

Comment by Loren Miller on September 18, 2012 at 9:24am

Robert, you have the right to think as you please regarding abortion and to express that opinion.  What you do NOT have is the right to superimpose your opinion on someone else, and sure as hell not a woman with an unwanted pregnancy who may be struggling with her options.

If she carries the pregnancy to term, that's her choice.  If she aborts it, again, her choice.  Not yours, not mine, HERS ... and as it happens, her choice is supported as the current law of the land.  Whether you value the life she is carrying isn't the point.  It's the value SHE puts on it that counts, and neither of us get a vote on that.

Note what I said earlier: that these people look to make their bigotry UNIVERSAL.  Personally, I'm looking to do no such thing.  I don't force my sensibilities on others, and by the same token, I expect my sensibilities to be left unmolested.  Now, if you want to allege that a blastomere or embryo or fetus has rights, then take your best shot.  Just expect a LOT of blow-back.

Comment by Robert Brown on September 18, 2012 at 8:57am

Wow Loren, as a conservative atheist it always amazes me listening to liberals. When we conservatives disagree with liberals we think you are wrong, but when liberals disagree with conservatives, not only are we wrong, but we are bigoted and many other disparaging names.

I think a human is its own person after it has its first heartbeat. So I am against abortion after that, but pro-abortion folks conveniently forget the human life in the woman and only focus on the mothers rights.  What about rights the woman or man growing in her womb?

And this opinion of mine doesn't just make me wrong in your eyes, it makes me Bigoted? Way to "respect" the right of people to have different opinions folks.

Don't get so hung up on the name calling the way religious people do when they disagree with someone. I am not going to hell because I don't believe in a god and I am not a bigot just because I value the life of an innocent unborn child over the reproductive choices of women that had chosen to have unprotected sex and got pregnant.

Please keep in mind that not all atheist are liberals, so just because we are right that there is no god that doesn't indicate that everything we believe in is also true.  The name calling is a lazy way of not having to find a reasonable way to counter an argument.  They are a bigot, so I don't have to even consider their point of view justified.

And coming from a conservative point of view, I have received more discrimination in expressing myself from liberals than religious people.  At least religious people hear me out as an atheist and will try to befriend me to convert me.  Liberals often just shut down conservative conversations with name calling so they don't have to deal with opposing views.

 

Comment by Loren Miller on September 18, 2012 at 7:49am

Melinda, the problem with too many such people is that they think they have the right to discriminate, to be bigoted, and to make their bigotry universal.  When their ignorance is educated to the contrary, then they think their "rights" have been infringed upon when they never had such rights to begin with.

Meanwhile we're stuck tolerating their intolerance, or so goes the supposition ... except that we DO point out their behavior and intolerance and its deleterious effects ... and they get all upset again.

May be the closest thing to perpetual motion that man will ever get.

Comment by booklover on September 18, 2012 at 7:42am

Joan that is EXACTLY RIGHT.  We have to respect others right to believe something, but we do NOT have to respect the belief. 

Ruth, Awesome pic of the difference between the Koreas! :)

Comment by booklover on September 18, 2012 at 7:35am

Thank you Joan.  I learn so much from you.  There are so many smart people on here to learn from, and I'm very grateful for that.

As to the religious fearing that they are having their rights taken away, while in the mean time they try to take away the rights of others, like you mentioned, LGBT, Women's reproduction, etc., I just find that kind of thinking really scary.  It's scary because they can't see the other side of it.  They truly believe that because what THEY believe is right and true, that they aren't taking away rights that other people should be allowed to have.  And there are so many of 'them.'

Comment by Joan Denoo on September 18, 2012 at 6:04am

Ruth, such a stark contrast between North and South and the photos say it all. 
sk8eycat, my new motto:  "I respect a person's right to believe whatever they want to, but I don't have to respect what he/she believes."

Steph and Booklover, I thoroughly enjoy reading your comments; we recognize challenges exist even as we enjoy living. 

 
 
 

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