Politics, Economics, and Religion

Comment

Comment by Robert Brown on September 18, 2012 at 9:43am

Loren, that is why there should be discussion and argument over the issue and not just shouting down somebody as a bigot. You say a woman has a sole right to determine what goes on with her body, I agree.  But you fail to see that the unborn woman in a womb has the sole right to determine what happens to her body as well, including whether she is aborted or not.

With medical technology increasing, a baby or fetus if you prefer has greater and greater viability to survive at an earlier time outside of the womb.  So if it can live outside of the womb, how is it not its own individual with individual rights?

That is the real argument conservatives make, religious or not. It suprises me how many liberals truly believe that conservatives are actually sitting around discussing how to take rights away from women when we are just trying to give rights to those without a say in the matter.

Can you not see the parallels to women once not having rights in society to children or the unborn not having them now? It isn't just a religious control over women issue.

Shoot, even pets are getting rights these days, I mean furry companions :)

And my conservative views on abortion are not the only ones I have been called a bigot over. Many of the liberal viewpoints I disagree with.

Comment by Loren Miller on September 18, 2012 at 9:24am

Robert, you have the right to think as you please regarding abortion and to express that opinion.  What you do NOT have is the right to superimpose your opinion on someone else, and sure as hell not a woman with an unwanted pregnancy who may be struggling with her options.

If she carries the pregnancy to term, that's her choice.  If she aborts it, again, her choice.  Not yours, not mine, HERS ... and as it happens, her choice is supported as the current law of the land.  Whether you value the life she is carrying isn't the point.  It's the value SHE puts on it that counts, and neither of us get a vote on that.

Note what I said earlier: that these people look to make their bigotry UNIVERSAL.  Personally, I'm looking to do no such thing.  I don't force my sensibilities on others, and by the same token, I expect my sensibilities to be left unmolested.  Now, if you want to allege that a blastomere or embryo or fetus has rights, then take your best shot.  Just expect a LOT of blow-back.

Comment by Robert Brown on September 18, 2012 at 8:57am

Wow Loren, as a conservative atheist it always amazes me listening to liberals. When we conservatives disagree with liberals we think you are wrong, but when liberals disagree with conservatives, not only are we wrong, but we are bigoted and many other disparaging names.

I think a human is its own person after it has its first heartbeat. So I am against abortion after that, but pro-abortion folks conveniently forget the human life in the woman and only focus on the mothers rights.  What about rights the woman or man growing in her womb?

And this opinion of mine doesn't just make me wrong in your eyes, it makes me Bigoted? Way to "respect" the right of people to have different opinions folks.

Don't get so hung up on the name calling the way religious people do when they disagree with someone. I am not going to hell because I don't believe in a god and I am not a bigot just because I value the life of an innocent unborn child over the reproductive choices of women that had chosen to have unprotected sex and got pregnant.

Please keep in mind that not all atheist are liberals, so just because we are right that there is no god that doesn't indicate that everything we believe in is also true.  The name calling is a lazy way of not having to find a reasonable way to counter an argument.  They are a bigot, so I don't have to even consider their point of view justified.

And coming from a conservative point of view, I have received more discrimination in expressing myself from liberals than religious people.  At least religious people hear me out as an atheist and will try to befriend me to convert me.  Liberals often just shut down conservative conversations with name calling so they don't have to deal with opposing views.

 

Comment by Loren Miller on September 18, 2012 at 7:49am

Melinda, the problem with too many such people is that they think they have the right to discriminate, to be bigoted, and to make their bigotry universal.  When their ignorance is educated to the contrary, then they think their "rights" have been infringed upon when they never had such rights to begin with.

Meanwhile we're stuck tolerating their intolerance, or so goes the supposition ... except that we DO point out their behavior and intolerance and its deleterious effects ... and they get all upset again.

May be the closest thing to perpetual motion that man will ever get.

Comment by booklover on September 18, 2012 at 7:42am

Joan that is EXACTLY RIGHT.  We have to respect others right to believe something, but we do NOT have to respect the belief. 

Ruth, Awesome pic of the difference between the Koreas! :)

Comment by booklover on September 18, 2012 at 7:35am

Thank you Joan.  I learn so much from you.  There are so many smart people on here to learn from, and I'm very grateful for that.

As to the religious fearing that they are having their rights taken away, while in the mean time they try to take away the rights of others, like you mentioned, LGBT, Women's reproduction, etc., I just find that kind of thinking really scary.  It's scary because they can't see the other side of it.  They truly believe that because what THEY believe is right and true, that they aren't taking away rights that other people should be allowed to have.  And there are so many of 'them.'

Comment by Joan Denoo on September 18, 2012 at 6:04am

Ruth, such a stark contrast between North and South and the photos say it all. 
sk8eycat, my new motto:  "I respect a person's right to believe whatever they want to, but I don't have to respect what he/she believes."

Steph and Booklover, I thoroughly enjoy reading your comments; we recognize challenges exist even as we enjoy living. 

Comment by sk8eycat on September 18, 2012 at 1:54am

Joan, Re: "Why should an atheist respect something he/she does not respect."

Years ago I heard a talking head on a TV panel discussion say," I disagree with him completely, but I have to respect his beliefs." and I yelled at the screen, "WHYYYYY?"

Ever since then I have used this statement: "I respect a person's right to believe whatever they want to, but I don't have to respect what he/she believes."

There is a difference.

Comment by Ruth Anthony-Gardner on September 17, 2012 at 11:33pm

A picture is worth...

Comment by Joan Denoo on September 17, 2012 at 6:50pm

The New Religious Intolerance: Overcoming the Politics of Fear in a...

Is it not interesting that religious individuals and institutions, concerned about intolerance against them, express fear that religious intolerance is on the rise, even as various different religions express intolerance against GLBT, family planning, women's right to control her own body, women in leadership positions, and intolerance of other religions?

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