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Justice For All

Atheists have our own ideas about what is just and what is unjust.  This group will explore the elusive concept of justice.  Topics include racial injustice, death penalty, imprisonment, crime, and other aspects of justice in modern society and in history.  Without gods, what is the basis for justice?  What do humanists and others say about justice?  What do you think about current controversies and cases regarding justice or injustice?

Members: 35
Latest Activity: Jul 25

Welcome!

Troy Davis's photo was chosen as this original icon for this group.  Davis symbolized inequality of justice in the US.  At the time of his execution, 9/21/11, the evidence supporting his conviction was flimsy.  There was known evidence supporting his innocence.  He was executed anyway. Since then the icon is changed to represent justice in general.

 

There are different nontheist points of view about justice, punishment, penalties, death penalty.   There is strong support for retribution and execution in the theist community (in the US).

 

What serves as "justice" is not distributed evenly across communities.  The most egregious injustice has strong racial overtones.  If you would like to read about, and discuss justice, what it is, who gets justice, and who doesn't, and stories relevant to this topic, please join and contribute to the discussions.

 

Resources

www.deathpenalty.org  factsheet.

www.deathpenalty.org  main page

deathpenaltyinfo.org  executed possibly innocent

amnestyUSA death penalty information

death row population (CNN)  sept 2011.

innocence project.  The innocent and the death penalty.

innocence project Wikipedia discussion

California innocence project

Chicago innocence project

Georgia innocence project

ThinkProgress/Justice

Discussion Forum

Environmental Activist Hit Lists

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Grinning Cat Jun 30. 2 Replies

Harsher sentences increase crime

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Luara Jun 27. 4 Replies

Debtors Prison in the US

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Ruth Anthony-Gardner Jun 12. 4 Replies

Coal Ash contaminated water jail coverup

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner May 26. 0 Replies

"White Guilt" by Shelby Steele

Started by Luara. Last reply by Luara May 16. 3 Replies

Wealth Redistribution during Climate Crisis

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by k.h. ky Apr 26. 20 Replies

Secret courts for Corporations

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Grinning Cat Nov 30, 2013. 1 Reply

US suffers split economy

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner Nov 19, 2013. 0 Replies

Anal probes for rolling stop at a stop sign

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Luara Nov 18, 2013. 31 Replies

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Comment by Donald R Barbera on August 8, 2012 at 1:19pm
The Innocence Project works well in Texas because we have a lot to work with. I guess I'm a lot meaner than I thought. I wouldn't want them dead. I want them to suffer in prison as I would be suffering on the outside missing my loved one and suffering the ravages of time. Executed? They just got a free pass from the pain. Is that politically incorrect?
Comment by Loren Miller on August 7, 2012 at 10:16pm

It's almost undeniable, SB ... "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth."  Despite all their new testament sweetness and light, that's what they want.  They want VENGEANCE ... and screw "vengeance is mine, saith the lord."  They want it for themselves.

Comment by Sentient Biped on August 7, 2012 at 10:12pm

Do you think there is a causative effect of religiosity vis a vis death penalty, or social justice issues like poverty, health insurance, education, wages, murders?  Fellow traveling issues, or one causing the other?  People who are more religious are more likely to accept status quo, or people who are more likely to accept status quo are more likely to be religious?  Religion is used by the "leaders" to support status quo?

Comment by Donald R Barbera on August 7, 2012 at 7:09pm

I forgot to add that in Dallas County alone there have been nearly 20 exoneration and as I said killing someone is not even a good form of revenge, but I guess its the best they can come up with that escapes "cruel and unusual" punishment. Texas only becomes more progressive when you consider the South in general which unfailingly ranks first in nearly every negative category and last in every positive one. The porrest, the most sickly, the least insured, the people over 25 without HS degrees, the least college graduates, the lowest wages, the most law officers murdered, etc. However, they have the highest rate of religion.

Comment by Sentient Biped on August 7, 2012 at 11:15am

Donald, it would be easy for me to say "Oh, that's just Texas, that's how they live there" except the people, who are wrongfully convicted and wrongfully executed, are not to blame for their victimization.  Given Texas' size and population, it could be a sizeable, if backward, country.  Plus, it IS part of the US, so what happens in Texas is happening in America.  Not to mention the occasional president that Texas gives to the country.

Actually, I think Texas might be more progressive than some other states of southeast and southwest.

 

I heard they do have electricity in some districts of Texas - used it for executions. 

 

Apparently Marvin Wilson is still breathing, but probably not for long.  Execution planned for later today. 

 

 

Comment by Donald R Barbera on August 7, 2012 at 7:25am
I live here and try to ignore Texas, but it is exceedly difficult when I have to cross moats, battle with dragons and suffrer burns from peat fires. I heard electricity is coming soon.
Comment by Sentient Biped on August 6, 2012 at 10:41pm

Donald, thanks for commenting.  I try not to concentrate on Texas but it's hard not to.  For some reason execution is part of the Texas culture.  Then there's Florida.....  Exoneration sometimes tells us how flawed  the system is.  They let wrongfully convicted people go free (sometimes) but those people should not have been convicted anyway.  In some cases the poor soul could write another Kafka novel.

Comment by Donald R Barbera on August 6, 2012 at 10:40am
I have to comment because I covered exonerations extensively in my book just t make a point. I only coverer death penalty cases, but that makes the findings even that more important. Currently, Texas has exonerated more than 30 death-row prisoners. One was exonerated posthumously (I'm sure he was pleased about that). He was not executed--he died in jail after his appeals ran out. Texas lead the nation in executions. It also leads the nation in exonerations. Unless these guys are Lazurus and work with a magician named Jesus, they ain't comin' back. If they want punishment, revenge or retribution a life sentence is cruel if not unusual punishment. Suffering isolation, deteriorxation by age, disease, physical abuse and self-abuse through drugs and psychological means is horrible. I'd rather they just shot me. However, there is one thing to recommend it and that is, if they are wrong, they can let you go; something that is exceedingly difficult to do at the onset of death.
Comment by Sentient Biped on August 4, 2012 at 10:42pm

Exonerated after 16 years in prison.  Faith kept him going.

fox23.com

"A Tulsa judge exonerated a man convicted of a 1995 burglary and armed robbery in east Tulsa. DNA testing of evidence has excluded Sedrick Courtney as a suspect in the crime. Courtney served 16 years for the crime"

Sometimes I'm at a loss for words.  This is one of those times.

Comment by Sentient Biped on August 4, 2012 at 10:30pm

Not wanting to seem too jaded, but is it possible for Americans to hold two thoughts in their heads at the same time? 

Fried chicken sandwich.  Fried chicken sandwich.  Execute developmentally delayed prisoners.  Fried chicken sandwich.

 

Wait - what was that? 

 

Marvin Wilson has an IQ of 61.  He will be executed in Texas on tuesday.  The supreme court already declared unconstitutional, the execution of mentally retarded persons (their term, not mine).  Salon.com 

Photo from death row site here.seeking pen pal (a bit late now)

From CrimeTIcker.com here - on death row 18 years. 

Also in thegrio.com

Wilson is convicted of killing a drug informant, Jerry Robert Williams, in 1992, during an altercation.

Marvin Lee Wilson

 "It is not known for certain whether Wilson was the shooter or simply a party to the crime."

I wonder if his execution will be on the news?

Fried chicken sandwich.  Fried chicken sandwich.  Fried chicken sandwich. 

 

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