Justice For All

Atheists have our own ideas about what is just and what is unjust.  This group will explore the elusive concept of justice.  Topics include racial injustice, death penalty, imprisonment, crime, and other aspects of justice in modern society and in history.  Without gods, what is the basis for justice?  What do humanists and others say about justice?  What do you think about current controversies and cases regarding justice or injustice?

Members: 35
Latest Activity: Jun 30


Troy Davis's photo was chosen as this original icon for this group.  Davis symbolized inequality of justice in the US.  At the time of his execution, 9/21/11, the evidence supporting his conviction was flimsy.  There was known evidence supporting his innocence.  He was executed anyway. Since then the icon is changed to represent justice in general.


There are different nontheist points of view about justice, punishment, penalties, death penalty.   There is strong support for retribution and execution in the theist community (in the US).


What serves as "justice" is not distributed evenly across communities.  The most egregious injustice has strong racial overtones.  If you would like to read about, and discuss justice, what it is, who gets justice, and who doesn't, and stories relevant to this topic, please join and contribute to the discussions.


Resources  factsheet.  main page  executed possibly innocent

amnestyUSA death penalty information

death row population (CNN)  sept 2011.

innocence project.  The innocent and the death penalty.

innocence project Wikipedia discussion

California innocence project

Chicago innocence project

Georgia innocence project


Discussion Forum

Environmental Activist Hit Lists

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Grinning Cat Jun 30. 2 Replies

Harsher sentences increase crime

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Luara Jun 27. 4 Replies

Debtors Prison in the US

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Ruth Anthony-Gardner Jun 12. 4 Replies

Coal Ash contaminated water jail coverup

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner May 26. 0 Replies

"White Guilt" by Shelby Steele

Started by Luara. Last reply by Luara May 16. 3 Replies

Wealth Redistribution during Climate Crisis

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by k.h. ky Apr 26. 20 Replies

Secret courts for Corporations

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Grinning Cat Nov 30, 2013. 1 Reply

US suffers split economy

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner Nov 19, 2013. 0 Replies

Anal probes for rolling stop at a stop sign

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Luara Nov 18, 2013. 31 Replies

White mayor, black wife: NYC shatters an image

Started by Steph S.. Last reply by Sentient Biped Nov 17, 2013. 7 Replies

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Comment by Sentient Biped on November 20, 2013 at 6:18pm

Missouri executed Joseph Paul Franklin today.

Franklin was a serial killer and a white supremacist who liked murdering Jews and interracial couples.  He was convicted of 7 murders and claimed to have murdered 20.

His last killings were in 1980.  Two young black men.

Franklin was the shooter responsible for shooting Hustler publisher Larry Flint, resulting in permanent paralysis.

Franklin was considered mentally ill, a paranoid schizophrenic.

This was the first single-drug execution, using pentoparbital.

Larry Flint was against Franklin's execution.

People like Franklin make it hard to argue against the death penalty.  But the death sentence could net be considered a deterrent in this case.  Is it a punishment for the crimes?  Or just a removal of this person from society, like pulling weeds?

Comment by Sentient Biped on November 20, 2013 at 4:49pm

A little more perspective, same theme.

Comment by Sentient Biped on November 20, 2013 at 4:38pm

A little perspective. 


Comment by Joan Denoo on November 18, 2013 at 3:47pm

I very much like your new icon. It represents what I hope to see in our nation. Also, excellent news about Thaddeus Jimenez "TJ". 

Justice Delayed is Justice Denied

Comment by Sentient Biped on November 17, 2013 at 7:13am

Group icon changed.  I always feel depressed looking at Troy Davis' photo.  The new icon is public domain and represents the general ideal of justice.  Even if that ideal is not always achieved..

Comment by Ruth Anthony-Gardner on September 30, 2012 at 5:40pm

Comment by Sentient Biped on August 12, 2012 at 8:27pm

Re:  Europe, then there's Yugoslavia....  That didn't turn out so good.  I'd hold off before claiming finality on European peacefulness.  They're human just like the rest of us, and their recent civilized behavior is a brief wink in the millennia of that continent's history.

But I do agree with the points about racial inequality / racism in the death penalty.  I was going to post pics of the prior mentally handicapped man on death row, whose death penalty was held (white) vs. the most recent one, who has now been killed (executed) (black), but was concerned I was oversimplifying.  Still, the white mans' crime was more heinous, if anything, and his IQ about the same.

Comment by Donald R Barbera on August 10, 2012 at 6:57am
Sarah, obviouslyh you are on the money. I lived in Germany twice and the entire subject is touchy and with good reason. I f one reviews current European living, it appears the Europeans have succeeded in moving into the 21st century. Not that they don't have issues; they do. They have racial issues as they have the need to import labor which often leads to cultural clashes. Nevertheless, they are miles ahead of the US when it comes to social consciousness and liberty. When centuries of wars, bloodshed and religious strife results in devastation of countries, people and resources, pretty soon the idea occurs that these things are not good. That's why they've gotten out of the arms race and let the United States take on the role of world police so they can spend theit money on making like better for all. It works and sometimes it doesn't but at least it is a major concern--not lip service.
Comment by Sarah on August 9, 2012 at 9:17pm

Riffing on something Sentient said, I was at a death penalty conference last month (being a death penalty defense attorney), and one of the plenary sessions was focused on race and the death penalty.

We're all aware that there is racism in the US death penalty, which is mostly seen in the race of the victims. But the angle he introduced that I'd never heard before related to Germany. He said he'd been in Germany recently and spoken to people in the criminal justice system there. They said that Germans do not discuss the death penalty. They have a deep awareness that having the death penalty is absolutely not an option for them, given their national history.

Our speaker then asked us to consider how we would all view it if Germany DID have the death penalty and disproportionately imposed it on Jews. While almost never imposing it on those who murdered Jews. We would be appalled, wouldn't we? We would not be able to see any real distance between the horrific past and the current practice.

So why do we with our history of slavery and lynchings feel free to have the death penalty? It's really telling when you look at a map of where death sentences are imposed and then also where they are actually carried out. It is a tiny minority of counties in this country that even sentence people to death, let alone execute. And those counties are very heavily located in areas that have an unfortunate history of lynching.

Would that we could have an honest and real discussion about this as a nation.

Comment by Sentient Biped on August 9, 2012 at 6:41pm

Jesus died for our sins so that we wont have to.  But we make people die for their sins anyway.  So does that mean that christians disagree with Jesus?

Jesus said forgive those who trespass against us.  But in a christian country, we kill those who trespass against us.

On the other hand, many societies have practiced human sacrifice to appease the gods. 

I guess those states that practice human sacrifice are the last bastions of the Aztec empire.   Or the Spanish inquisition - I can't tell the difference. 

Oh wait -the Spanish Inquisition  was catholic too, which is supposedly a form of christianity.  I get so confused.


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