Winning Arguments!


Winning Arguments!

Practice your skills to win religious debates using information, persuasion, logic, and reason!

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Comment by Double Standards??? on January 19, 2010 at 6:34pm
What about The Shroud of Turin argument? I don't understand what Christians think it is proof of. Please educate me my atheist brothers and sisters.
Comment by Double Standards??? on January 19, 2010 at 5:03pm
My great uncle was with Patton's 3rd Armored in WWII. Years ago (before his passing) he told me that while the catholic boys were busy with their rosary beads the atheists were busy shooting back.

Great story Bill. Thanks for sharing. :)
Comment by Andrew on January 19, 2010 at 3:54pm
I recently used a line of argumentation that was basically inspired by what Sam Harris said at the La Ciudad debate. My experience in taking on those who defend the faith is that we can win any argument if we do the following:

1. Not have a problem with the deist god (because it doesn't matter if that god exists or not). This means that we don't have to waste time "proving the nonexistence of God in the universe."

2. Make it clear that Christianity rests solely on whether the Gospel accounts of miracles attributed to Jesus are true, and that's all we have to deal with in order to reject Christianity.

3. Make mention about how the earliest Gospels were written DECADES after Jesus, that we don't have original manuscripts, only copies of copies of copies, and that there are plenty of errors both in the manuscripts and in the current Gospels.

4. Mention that miracles have been reported throughout history (cite examples of current ones and past ones from people outside of Christianity).

5. Given points 3 and 4, there are bad reasons to believe the Gospels at face value. Since we (the Christian and the atheist) don't think miracles from non-Christians (no matter how recent) are worth a second thought, how much worse is it to believe that the miracles in the Gospels (which are ancient, written decades after Jesus, and we only have copies of copies of descrepant manuscripts)?

When the apologists or Christians start resorting to fallacies, you win. They usually resort to: "Whenever I read what you atheists say, my faith increases ..."

A good response is from Dan Barker. "I take that as a compliment. You're essentially saying since all the evidence for your religion is missing, you've had to fill in the gaps with MORE FAITH."
Comment by Howard S. Dunn on January 19, 2010 at 2:01pm
Yeah - one would think that would be a more reliable way to save your ass.
Comment by Howard S. Dunn on January 19, 2010 at 12:31pm
Oh - and to those who say: "There are no atheists in foxholes!" (besides this being pure bullshit) I reply: "A drowning man fights to keep his head above water like there is no god to save him."
Comment by Howard S. Dunn on January 19, 2010 at 12:11pm
Actually - and this is admittedly a bit abstract - I was thinking the other day how our ability to reason can sometimes overcome our survival instinct in a way that can actually save us.

I was next to a dump truck on the turnpike traveling at high speed when, suddenly, and for no clear reason, the car in front of the car in front of the dump truck slammed on its brakes (maybe because they saw a unicorn?)

Well, there was a semi in the right lane, so the dump truck driver couldn't go that way even if he wanted to - leaving him with the 'choice' of taking out the two cars in front of him or me next to him.

I'm pretty sure that my instinct, if I had zero time to think, would have been to hit the brakes as the dump truck began braking and encroaching into my lane. Had I done that, however, I would be dead, dead, dead - no question - crushed into the median or pushed over it into oncoming traffic.

But I had an very small window for my cerebral cortex to kick in. I hit the accelerator hard! The dump truck missed my back bumper by inches and I could see the driver frantically 'rooting' for me as he slowed and I accelerated away from danger.

Fear does not always offer the best way to avoid disaster. It can result in panic. My dad used to always tell me that the fastest way to drown is to panic.

BTW - prayer would have been more useless than fear.
Comment by Andrew on January 15, 2010 at 11:35am
Nvm folks, while these guys are skilled apologists, the actual debate has since degraded into utter depravity. Once their evidence is shown to be bad, they turned to usual apologetic fallacies; attacking a form of atheism that isn't in play, and ad hominums, etc. I don't think anyone yet has addressed any of the points made. This debate has left a bad taste in my mouth.
Comment by James Turkia on January 14, 2010 at 2:25pm
Excellent post Andrew! I'll have to do some heavy studying of that conversation later. (I have to go to work.) It looks like a debate well spoken (written) and polite. Something I think the atheist community needs. We seem a little overrepresented by the angry, no bullshit atheists right now. Although we need them too.
Comment by Andrew on January 14, 2010 at 2:17pm
This might be a better link.

I'd skip to the end to get past all the other side's loooooong and useless argumentation. I'm just tooting my own horn, but I think there's some useful stuff in there that would contribute to the dialog here.
Comment by Andrew on January 14, 2010 at 2:11pm

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