Vegetarian/Vegan Atheists

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Vegetarian/Vegan Atheists

This group is here to provide a sense of community for nontheist vegetarians and vegans.

Share experiences, thoughts, philosophy, recipes, other issues relevant to the group.

Members: 378
Latest Activity: Jun 23

Discussion Forum

Pet foods as vegan/vegetarian?

Started by Lindzee. Last reply by Lindzee Mar 2. 4 Replies

omega-3 in vegan diets

Started by Luara May 9, 2013. 0 Replies

Raw diets

Started by Luara May 9, 2013. 0 Replies

Feelings of plants

Started by Ege Çınar Arcan. Last reply by Peter N Jan 26, 2013. 10 Replies

New here, looking for tofu recipies

Started by diane sholly. Last reply by Humble Pie Jan 9, 2013. 3 Replies

Abortion

Started by Chris Z. Last reply by VeganAquarianAtheist Dec 31, 2012. 16 Replies

New here, glad to find this group!

Started by Justin Lee. Last reply by Sentient Biped Aug 8, 2012. 2 Replies

Comment Wall

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Comment by Chris Z on June 3, 2012 at 12:05am

Whoa!  Yeah, agree with you Sentient Biped.  Didn't expect all that.  I was just was literally curious.  ...but, holy cow! 

Comment by Sentient Biped on June 2, 2012 at 10:22am

The abortion / veg idea would be a great idea to post in the Veg discussion forum.  That way people can follow over the long term, while comments continue to scroll onto other topics. 

Comment by Pamela on June 2, 2012 at 9:35am
So my intention wasn't to say that your promotive of killing things, but you are promotive of peoples choice to take life.  Whereas I am against that choice (anti-choice).

Taking anti-biotics is taking lives, washing a floor or taking a shower "takes lives".  The issue is whether a woman can have her body hijacked by the interests of a POSSIBLE future person, or if her autonimy is her own.  Being male perhaps you can't imagine the situation?  You are proposing women be forced to carry pregnancies against their will. To those of us with a uterus it is like being the victim in Alien!  It isn't "no big deal" to carry a fetus for 9 months and then give birth....and that is if everything goes perfectly!  Perhaps if we were to ask you to have a lemon shoved up your utethra until it reaches you bladder.  Sound like fun??  Want that procedure mandated by law??  I'm betting not.

  I don't make decisions about what other women do with their uterus, and no one makes decisons about what I do with mine.  And I defend the lives of animals.  Fully formed ones with the capacity to suffer. 

I see the only part of my post you responded to was the terminology.  Use whatever terminology you like.  I just wanted to point out that EVERYONE is on the same side when it comes to abortion...we'd all like to eliminate the need for most of them.  Better birth control is the #1 way to do that.  The reason I've never had an abortion is becuse I never got pregnant. 

I don't want any children ever, so I am positive I would have aborted any "mistakes".  And asking why I didn't get sterilized is like asking "Were do you get your protein".  If I had a nickel for everytime I hear THAT one!  I tried to get sterilized in my early 20's, but of course in keeping with the idea that women can't make decisions about thier own uterus I was told I "might change my mind". Strangely no one gave my first husband any trouble when I took HIM to get fixed...at age 23!!   Nope, just a quick "you sure about this" and snip snip! 

There is WAY more to this issue than "is it alive" sweetie.

Comment by Chris Z on June 1, 2012 at 4:17pm

Hmm, I had forgotten some people take offense to the term pro-abortion.  I've discussed this topic so much that I no longer see any problem with the terms, pro-abortion and anti-choice.  The two exception cases I gave are typically agreeable between both parties, so I simply viewed my choice of label (i.e. pro-abortion) as literally true (promoting of the choice for abortion for things beyond those two usually agreed upon exceptions mentioned).

Were you to call me anti-choice, I don't think I would have thought twice about it because in my description of where I stand, I am against people's ability to choose outside of those two exceptions.

Also, perhaps being in science, and computing, I look at pro and anti as simple specifications, designators.

So my intention wasn't to say that your promotive of killing things, but you are promotive of peoples choice to take life.  Whereas I am against that choice (anti-choice).

I do apologize if I offended you from those labels.

The prolife and prochoice labels don't seem fitting then either if were to be specific.  What terms should we agree upon using?

Comment by Pamela on June 1, 2012 at 2:44pm

Chris, A vegan would not eat a fetus because it is still and animal product (the same reason we don't eat unfertilized chicken eggs even though they are never going to be chickens).  But I see no reason why a lacto-ovo vegetarian couldn't eat it (beyond being grossed out due to cultural ideas about food).  It would be no different, technically, than eating eggs or dairy products.

I take exception to your use of the term "pro-abortion".  No one is PRO abortion.  No one is trying to encourage people to get more abortions or standing outside abortion clinics cheering women on!  We are pro CHOICE.  We accept that it is a choice each woman makes for herself and even if we disagree with that choice we refrain from taking it away from her.

The main reason I am vegan (beyond health) is that I do not want to cause suffering to any living thing.  I don't use dairy products because I don't think it is OK to enslave cows, forcibly impregnate them, kidnap their children and steal their milk.  I have similar reasons for not using other animal products.  Most fetuses are aborted during the first trimester.  They have no brain and no central nervous system.  They cannot feel, they cannot suffer, so I have no moral obligation toward them.  

Comment by Chris Z on June 1, 2012 at 2:13pm

Full disclosure.  I'm a lacto-ovo-vegetarian atheist who is also anti-abortion (save immanent death and irreversible, unbearable-pain due to disability).

Awhile back, I wrote on this page as to how I couldn't really grasp how a vegetarian could be pro-abortion (outside of the cases I've given above).  Instantly, there were some people after me over my comments.

Well, I picked back up the topic again with an anti-abortion omnivore friend of mine.

If I remember correctly, some pro-abortion vegetarian/vegans didn't agree that human life began at conception.

My new question:  Would a pro-abortion vegetarian/vegan technically be able to eat one of these fetuses (perhaps before it gained a central nervous system or whatever) because it's "not a human"?

Or would the pro-abortion vegetarian/vegan (who doesn't think of "it" as a human), not be able to eat it?  What are your grounds assuming you won't give a cop-out such as for reasons of taste or logistics?

Thank you for thinking about this in advance.  Just curious.

Comment by annet on April 22, 2012 at 12:09am

will do Dogly. 

Comment by Dogly on April 21, 2012 at 2:17pm

annet, would you please share this illustration on the

Atheism and vegetarnianism

discussion?  

Comment by annet on April 21, 2012 at 11:55am

This reminded me of you guys. 

Comment by Sentient Biped on December 11, 2011 at 1:35pm

I'm going to lobby for Manchurian dumplings.  It helps to be living with a Manchurian person.  Maybe a glass of wine with that.  

On the other hand, if my favorite dumpling chef is not in the mood for them, I'll have to come up with something.  Plan B at the moment is potato pancakes.  

I'm jonesing for a mince pie.  Not mince-meat.  Mince pie is chopped golden and black raisins, chopped whole lemon, chopped whole orange; all chopped together, then diced apples, cooked down in apple juice and brown sugar, and some spices (as I recall, nutmeg, cinnamon, and cloves or allspice).  The orange and lemon peels add a marmalade-like dimension.  Maybe that too.  It takes several hours to make, so the holiday would be a good time for it.

 

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