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Permalink Reply by Dave Rogers on December 17, 2009 at 9:49am

It's not that they keep moving the goalposts, it's the groups that are actively working to have the End Times come about. They are actively plotting (like this twit) to get Israel set up just right to trigger the end. It's also the idiots that buy into it and are hoping they are magically flown up to their moronic sky daddy.

Permalink Reply by James M. Martin on December 22, 2009 at 2:52pm

The "pro life" movement is a misnomer. It is actually pro death. All of the reasons pro lifers set forth to justify their position can be linked solely to the Christian religion, a religious worship of Death and Dying. The argument is miscast as one involving "life" when in fact it should be a discussion of "personhood." For a brilliant take on this, see: http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-personhood.htm

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Permalink Reply by Jo Jerome on December 22, 2009 at 4:31pm

I don't care if they want to have their pretty churches, with pretty hymns, doing good deeds and making useless, fairy-dust wishes for an afterlife at the Disneyland in the sky.

Wait, what? Heaven is a recreation of Disneyland?

I repent! I totally believe! I want to ride Space Mountain forever!!!

:-)

Permalink Reply by Jo Jerome on December 22, 2009 at 4:52pm

Now that you mention it Dave, I hadn't really given End Times belief much thought, but it is pretty sick and twisted.

It's existence as a sociopolitical tool is as obvious as it gets. Threaten/frighten the people with their worst fears, "But if you do what I, your dear leader, tell you to do, you will escape the atrocity. And as a bonus, you get to watch everyone you hate suffer and writhe in pain and you don't have to feel an ounce of guilt over it because it's me God doing the torturing."

End-of-the-world paired with an eternity in Hell is about as cartoonishly-extreme, horrible a thing as you can threaten people with.

So how would I confront/converse with a Theist about End Times? In particular, Christians since they're the most popular? Thanks to some helpful tips and curious biblical points I've picked up on this site...

- What has Dave's 8 year old daughter, or another person's infant son, or my kitty-cats done to so offend your god that they deserve to suffer in agony while you get sent up to Heaven? If your god is powerful enough to have created the Universe and everything in it in six days, surely he's powerful enough to Rapture you without also setting the world on fire. Or is it costing god money or resources to keep the Earth running? How does a god-dollar compare to the U.S. dollar or the Euro?

- Why create everything and everyone just to recall a few several thousand years later? Is this God acknowledging that he's going to get bored some day, the way a child gets bored with a toy after a while?

- Why try and speed up the process (like setting up Israel to match biblical prerequisites for Rapture)? If God wants the Rapture to happen, isn't he capable of doing it himself? Isn't that a little arrogant of you to decide for God when his plan should be carried out?

- In Exodus, God hardens Pharaoh's heart so Pharaoh will be more evil and deserving of the punishments God has lined up for him. In other words, freewill be damned; God is perfectly willing and able to control another person's mind, will, emotions and actions. So why didn't God choose instead to soften Pharaoh's heart so Pharaoh would shower the Jews with flowers and cupcakes and set them all free? Likewise, if God loves me so much, why not just make me believe in him so I can be Raptured? Either God is incapable of creating good in people, only capable of creating evil (which, wouldn't that make God the Devil?), or God would rather see someone be evil and punished than be good and saved (which, wouldn't that still make God the Devil?).

- According to the New Testament, the End Times are going to happen in the lifetimes of the apostles. Which means they're either still alive or the New Testament is wrong. Which is it?