Comment by Jennifer Rosamond on March 16, 2009 at 11:09am

I agree with Tamara about it being pretty pointless to try and "convert" a theist. When I first became an atheist, and I was learning so many cool things, I wanted to share my new found knowledge with everyone. As time's gone on, I've realized that you can't have a rational argument with someone who is irrational. Robert Green Ingersoll said it best, “To argue with a man who has renounced his reason is like giving medicine to the dead”

Comment by Jennifer Rosamond on March 16, 2009 at 11:17am

Ben, if you do get into the whole "burden of proof" argument this article might be helpful http://www.freethoughtdebater.com/FBurdenOfProof.htm

Comment by Alex Donovan on March 17, 2009 at 4:23am

The less intelligent, fundamentalist variety of Christian cannot be reasoned with, because they have abandoned reason; however, most of the atheists I know were theists at one point in time. If nobody had bothered to try and reason with them, they may have never become atheists.
So I occasionally debate those theists who have demonstrated the capacity for reason. But those who do not, aren't worth the time.

Comment by Reality Activist on March 17, 2009 at 6:52am

Although you may not be able to convince a theist to agree with an atheist point of view, you can shake their foundations a little. You take their source, the Bible, and educate them on it's history and then refuse to accept any argument that is based on what is stated in the Bible. Then combine that with having the burden of proof with them. Since they are making the claim, it is they who must prove that there is a god. As long as you don't make any declarations that you have to support, they lose their foundation for a discussion.

Comment by Ian on March 17, 2009 at 6:59am

Jen, Good article on Burden of Proof - thanks.
Here is a web site that covers lots of logical fallacies. I found it a useful aid in wading through spurious arguments:
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

Comment by Alex Donovan on March 17, 2009 at 12:32pm

Yeah, good ol' nizkor has come in handy more than once.
I've never met a theistic argument that wasn't based on a logical fallacy.

Comment by Timothy W. Brown on March 22, 2009 at 12:27pm

@Ben - Your best bet is to not ever argue with a theist, especially in South Carolina.

Devout believers will always find ways to circumvent logic, no matter how rock-solid it is. The only logic Christians use is of the circular kind.

"Decoverting" from religion is a journey one must make for their self. You may be able to strike some doubt in them, but unless you are Richard Dawkins you have very little chance of changing their mind about anything.

Remember, Christians were raised from birth to believe in the Bible, and so they will continue to believe it's teachings until they find something that strikes them personally.

Comment by Reality Activist on March 24, 2009 at 9:20am

The only way to convert a true believer is by example. Reality is the great teacher. If you are conspicuous, respectable, decent, and successful, it shows that religion doesn't have a monopoly on appropriate behavior. This shakes the foundation of Christianity because if you don't need religion to be moral, then you don't need religion.
Trying to convince a believer that a god doesn't exist can often cause too much negativity. This defeats the overall purpose.

Comment by Alex Donovan on March 24, 2009 at 12:50pm

Allow me to clarify my own personal parameters...
IF a theist is willing to respect my right to my beliefs, and not try to 'convert' me while I'm walking in the park in Greenville, or in the mall, or in a bookstore, or in my own home, then I am willing to respect their right to theirs.
But...
When they knock on my door at 8:30 on a Saturday morning, or accost me on a daily basis as I'm simply going about my daily activities, then I will argue with them until they either shut up and go away or 'convert' to atheism.
Any guess on which happens more often? ;)

Comment by Alex Donovan on March 25, 2009 at 6:31am

A few years ago, I regularly attended the drumming circles in downtown Greenville. Apparently the local fundies thought that anybody who plays drums is a hippy in need of converting...they came out of the woodwork.
I also get the Jehovah's Witlesses at least once a month, banging on my door early Saturday mornings.
I live in the Spartanburg area, and it seems that here, the need to 'witness' to others is like a plague...or an epidemic.

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