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Secular Sexuality

(NSFW) A no-taboo approach to sexual education and health.

Website: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sexuality
Members: 670
Latest Activity: Sep 6

Sex for fun and non-procreation!

In this world, we can't get away from religion. We've been exposed to false information regarding contraception failure rates and experienced the STD scare tactics. Some of us may even have gone through abstinence-only sex education!

Here in Secular Sexuality we will discuss:

-sexual health in light of peer-reviewed science
-safe for work guides on safe(r) sex (or links)
-questions that would shock the religious

This discussion forum is moderated. Unsophisticared trolls and judging other people will not be tolerated. If you would like to see a topic addressed, or have a question, add it to the comment wall, or message an admin.

Message The Nerd if you want an invite to the X-rated group, for topics not allowed on Atheist Nexus.

Discussion Forum

Cliteracy

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BDSM

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Sex Tips

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Ezekiel 23:20 – Bible Porn?

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Beautiful Cervix

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Non-monogamy

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FREEOK 2013 - Emily Boyer: "Secular Facts on Sexual Acts"

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gender reveal parties

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Men have sex and women make love. Or do they?

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Music during sex

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How flirty is too flirty for a married person?

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Sexual Harassment and Assault at Hooters

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In Soviet Russia Orgasm has You

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Comment by A Former Member on July 1, 2009 at 8:01pm
@ Habman, I have moved our conversation here, because it has veered away from the topic of this group. Also, let's both try to work on our brevity, or else I won't be able to keep this up!
Comment by Habman on June 30, 2009 at 7:40pm
Hmmm he is honored by a 2 inch phallus shaped mushroom being named after him. I believe he needs to get a life. lol
Comment by Habman on June 30, 2009 at 7:30pm
It strikes me that it was only an illusion of regulation, not actual, real regulation itself.

So then what is regulation? If 1000's of pages of law is not then is 2000, 5000, 10000, 100000? So what would you say is "real regulation"?


Totally agree. But it does not seem to me that this is a problem with regulation, or even the concept of regulation, but rather a problem with corruption and regulation poorly done. We saw this in the EPA in the last 8 years. Industry insiders were making the decisions.

And insiders will always be making the decisions. Is the Obama administration consulting you regarding what the new regulations for the banking industry should be? No they are being written by industry insiders who have bought and paid for them and the regulations will in the end benefit them and they companies.

No I am not. The government should serve the people, not the other way around. It is run by the people, it employees the people, and it is there to create and enforce laws, deal with foreign matters, protect the economy and the citizens through democratic means. The government is not some kind of alien force that has come to the earth and imposed its will upon us. It is our government, run for and paid for by us.

Please name one thing that government does well. If they can't correctly regulate the banking industry after 200 years then how in the heck can they run the economy? And no the government is not an alien force it is much more insidious. It provides us with the appearance of freedom, but is actually the tool which the powerful and connected use to gain advantage over the unwashed masses, namely us.


Not the same thing. Our gov currently regulates prostitution. It says it is illegal and you cannot do it – giver or receiver. That is the way the laws are written now. What I am suggesting is the opposite of that: you have the freedom to do it, just like you have the freedom to shop or eat or socialize as you like. It’s not about judging or prohibiting anyone’s sexual needs or tastes or inclinations. It is about using common sense to protect the consumer and the worker.

It is exactly the same thing just a different form. If you believe that the government has the right to regulate any non-violent activity you have given them power to regulate all non-violent activities and they will grab that power like a 4 year old grabs a lollipop.

All government is force plan and simple. Government is the measured application of violence again anything they deem unlawful.

Also, the government regulates who I can sleep with or marry now, as it is. In Texas sodomy is no longer illegal, but it is not like that in all states. And I can’t get married in TX either.

I totally agree that they do, and that is why I oppose government in all its forms.
Your life is the basis of all your property and as such, it is you that should decide how it is used. Period. If you want to ingest a drug for what ever purpose, have at it. As long as you do not intrude on me or my property, you have that un-alienable right. Marriage is another example of usurpation by government.

Marriage was historically a function of the church with no state involvement. Slowly the government transformed it from a religious rite to a state license.

So if an industry dumps toxic waste into a river and ends up poisoning or killing thousands of people downstream, whose fault is it? The industries, or the victims? Shouldn’t the gov be able to regulate toxic waste to prevent that from happening?

As it currently stands industry can dump toxins poisoning and killing people downstream and as long as they stay under the government regulatory maximums those injured are powerless to do anything about it. They cannot sue for damages because the industry was "operating within the allowable limits". And if the government fines them for dumping the injured parties again get nothing it is the government that benefits.


Another example: I don’t understand math very well. Never been good at it, or numbers in general. I can’t remember phone numbers, birth dates, etc, either. I always have my taxes done each year. I pay my hard earned money to others to do it for me. Shouldn’t I be able to expect, in good faith, that these people are qualified, responsible, and are subject to the same rules of fair play and accountability as everyone else? I think so.


Another perfect example. Exactly how does any regulation in the books protect you when you get your taxes done? What actually protects you is the accountant wanting to stay in business. Government regulations in no way insure that the accountant is competent, intelligent or honest. What they actually do is drive up the cost of having your taxes done but limiting the number of accountants available. Just as medical schools where implemented by doctors to limit the number of doctors practicing by limiting the number that are allowed to graduate.

Additionally, if we all had to adhere to “if you don't understand something you do the research in to it. Then you get screwed over you have only yourself to blame…’’ then we’d all have to be experts at everything. Medicine, law, construction, physics, politics, foreign policy, etc.

Do you ever go to the doctor? Do you understand medicine? If not, are you to blame if your doctor turns out to be a quack who makes bad decisions? Shouldn’t he have to adhere to some form of regulation and oversight in order to protect his patients who go to him in good faith to help them solve their problems? I think so.


Again another example that proves my point. Doctors mistakes kill more people each year that guns, cars, planes and drowning. But we don't see a movement to ban doctors and what where does regulation protect the patient from bad doctors?

In fact every instance you've brought up is handled just fine under civil or criminal law.

Did you understand every word of your mortgage contract for your home when you signed it, or did you act in good faith that it was legal and fair. Did you rely upon the state or federal gov to exert some control over the industry so that you would not be screwed?

Our society functions out of reciprocity. Regulation, law, punishment and the like help it function, and also punishes those who act in overly selfish or anti-social ways, doesn’t it?

Punished for overly selfish or anti-social ways? Was anyone punished in the banking collapse? How about AIG?

No! In both cases in fact some of them received huge freaking bonuses paid for with the fruits of my and your labors in the form of tax dollars for doing so!! This is the product of government regulation.


I just heard that the SEC audited Bernie Madoff regularly and never found any problems. But this is an issue with incompetence and perhaps poor funding or too much cronyism, and not necessarily with regulation.

But an investment broker with 30 minutes and a pencil figured it out and contacted the SEC, explained the fraud and what did they do about it? They ignored it! Why because Bernie was connected, hell he ran the NYSE. Just proves my point once again.

Fraud is already as illegal as it can be, so why in the world would we need another level of laws to protect against it? Regulations of any industry are put in place to allow cover for certain companies at the expense of others.

Take the NAFTA "free trade" agreement, 12,000 pages of regulation to define "free trade". I can define it in one paragraph, but want it actually did was protect certain companies from having to trade freely in an open and fair marketplace.

I find it amazing that only when it comes to government are people willing to throw more and more money into a organization that fails time and again.

Would you take your car back into a repair shop that when returned to pick it up after an oil change found that the wheels were missing and then told you that if you just paid them more to begin with it would have never happened? I bet not, so why do you buy into the idea that if we just give them more they will be less corrupt?

Sorry Dallas, but it just doesn't add up.


So just extend this to the sex trade and you will have just one more mess. The reason that they keep the sex trade illegal is it produces millions in fines and fees that feed the government system with it's prisons, police, judicial and legal systems.

There is real money to made by creating black markets that can then be used as a reason to fleece the citizen to stop the immorality of it all.

Government creates imagined boogie men to justify its existence, and it is time we see through it.
Comment by A Former Member on June 30, 2009 at 12:59pm
Comment by A Former Member on June 30, 2009 at 12:06pm
Regulation is what lead to the Wall Street melt down as people believed that someone else was looking out for their best interests. The only best interests that were being looked after were those of the traders and bankers, they got they money and we all paid for it.

It strikes me that it was only an illusion of regulation, not actual, real regulation itself.

Secondly the regulators are from and beholden to the industry they are regulating.

Look at those put in charge of cleaning up the mess. They are the very same people that created it or allowed it to happen in the first place. Kind of the fox watching the hen house kind if arrangement isn't it?


Totally agree. But it does not seem to me that this is a problem with regulation, or even the concept of regulation, but rather a problem with corruption and regulation poorly done. We saw this in the EPA in the last 8 years. Industry insiders were making the decisions.

What you are promoting is government as master…

No I am not. The government should serve the people, not the other way around. It is run by the people, it employees the people, and it is there to create and enforce laws, deal with foreign matters, protect the economy and the citizens through democratic means. The government is not some kind of alien force that has come to the earth and imposed its will upon us. It is our government, run for and paid for by us.

…and if you believe that is the way it should be, then you have no right to bitch when government decides to dictate who you may or may not sleep with since they are only acting to protect you or society from you, right?

Not the same thing. Our gov currently regulates prostitution. It says it is illegal and you cannot do it – giver or receiver. That is the way the laws are written now. What I am suggesting is the opposite of that: you have the freedom to do it, just like you have the freedom to shop or eat or socialize as you like. It’s not about judging or prohibiting anyone’s sexual needs or tastes or inclinations. It is about using common sense to protect the consumer and the worker.

Also, the government regulates who I can sleep with or marry now, as it is. In Texas sodomy is no longer illegal, but it is not like that in all states. And I can’t get married in TX either.

Until people decide to think and act for themselves and reject this illusion of protection provided by government these type of things will happen again and again.

Look out for yourself, if you don't understand something you do the research in to it. Then you get screwed over you have only yourself to blame, instead of abdicating that responsibility to others.


So if an industry dumps toxic waste into a river and ends up poisoning or killing thousands of people downstream, whose fault is it? The industries, or the victims? Shouldn’t the gov be able to regulate toxic waste to prevent that from happening?

Another example: I don’t understand math very well. Never been good at it, or numbers in general. I can’t remember phone numbers, birth dates, etc, either. I always have my taxes done each year. I pay my hard earned money to others to do it for me. Shouldn’t I be able to expect, in good faith, that these people are qualified, responsible, and are subject to the same rules of fair play and accountability as everyone else? I think so.

Additionally, if we all had to adhere to “if you don't understand something you do the research in to it. Then you get screwed over you have only yourself to blame…’’ then we’d all have to be experts at everything. Medicine, law, construction, physics, politics, foreign policy, etc.

Do you ever go to the doctor? Do you understand medicine? If not, are you to blame if your doctor turns out to be a quack who makes bad decisions? Shouldn’t he have to adhere to some form of regulation and oversight in order to protect his patients who go to him in good faith to help them solve their problems? I think so.

Did you understand every word of your mortgage contract for your home when you signed it, or did you act in good faith that it was legal and fair. Did you rely upon the state or federal gov to exert some control over the industry so that you would not be screwed?

Our society functions out of reciprocity. Regulation, law, punishment and the like help it function, and also punishes those who act in overly selfish or anti-social ways, doesn’t it?

Regulation has never prevented anyone that wants to from ripping anyone off, they just find the loop holes in the regulations.

I just heard that the SEC audited Bernie Madoff regularly and never found any problems. But this is an issue with incompetence and perhaps poor funding or too much cronyism, and not necessarily with regulation.
Comment by Habman on June 30, 2009 at 11:32am
Regulation is what lead to the Wall Street melt down as people believed that someone else was looking out for their best interests. The only best interests that were being looked after were those of the traders and bankers, they got they money and we all paid for it.

The banking and securities industries are two of the most regulated industries in this country. The problem with regulation is that it define what is "legal" and what is "illegal" however there is a huge area of gray that isn't mentioned. This is where they all made their killings and when it all came crashing down they went to their friends in the government who protected their assets using our assets.

Secondly the regulators are from and beholden to the industry they are regulating.

Look at those put in charge of cleaning up the mess. They are the very same people that created it or allowed it to happen in the first place. Kind of the fox watching the hen house kind if arrangement isn't it?

What you are promoting is government as master, and if you believe that is the way it should be, then you have no right to bitch when government decides to dictate who you may or may not sleep with since they are only acting to protect you or society from you, right?

Until people decide to think and act for themselves and reject this illusion of protection provided by government these type of things will happen again and again.

Look out for yourself, if you don't understand something you do the research in to it. Then you get screwed over you have only yourself to blame, instead of abdicating that responsibility to others.

Regulation has never prevented anyone that wants to from ripping anyone off, they just find the loop holes in the regulations.
Comment by A Former Member on June 30, 2009 at 11:07am
@ Habman: I can't say that I agree with you 100%. I think legalized sex work is a great idea, but like all things, it needs some regulation and oversight. Lack of regulation is what lead to the wall street meltdown, IMO. Any "anything goes and every man for himself" industry is not helpful to anyone. Sure, regulation can go too far, so it depends on how it is done. The gov regulates auto mechanics and hair dressers, and for good reason. We need to be sure that the mechanics are qualified, following rules, doing honest and capable work, etc., in order to protect our investments in our autos, and our lives and the lives of others. It is an issue of quality and safety. Hair dressers also have a huge potential for spreading germs or lice and the like if not following health code regulations. Those rules are in place for good reason, and they need to be inspected and have some oversight.

We should apply these same standards to legal sex work as well. Workers should complete courses in safe sex, be required to receive regular disease testing, and understand what is or is not safe forms of play, such as asphyxiation. They should be able to have some recourse to go to after clients who go to far, such as beating or hurting them against their will, which they don't have now. If a pros gets beaten now, he or she has now recourse for protection. How can regulating that be a bad thing? Seems to me it would benefit both the worker and the client by keeping them safe. Sure, it won't be 100% effective, but I would prefer that system to our current illegal, no-holes-barred, drugs and disease system we have now.

@ Jennifer: You are correct, ancient homosexuality was not unique to the Greeks and Romans. Japan had not abmonitions against homosexuality until the Portuguese missionaries arrived. And in Mesoamerica, missionaries destroyed much of the homoerotic artwork of the people there (except for the pieces they kept hidden for themselves).
Comment by Habman on June 30, 2009 at 10:02am
Thank You Jennifer.

I really want to know when will those who want the government out of their bedrooms will join with those who want government out of their wallets or gun cabinets or doctors office and reject the use of force against others right to exist as they wish to?

Any interference in the life choices of others is something I find repugnant, but too often the person that wants to be free from governmental meddling on some aspect of their life is totally in favor of the government controlling someone else who they do not agree with.
Comment by Jennifer on June 30, 2009 at 9:55am
Very good point Habman.
Comment by Habman on June 30, 2009 at 9:50am
I am in total favor of an UN-regulated and socially acceptable sex worker element.

Regulation only allows those in power to act as pimp and oppress the worker.

You need to ask one question. Who will the regulator be?

Regulation is just another form of control and it seems too many who have cast off the oppression of religion substitute the oppression of the government as its replacement.
 

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