Helping someone deal with Catholic guilt over being gay and masturbation.

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by William van Druten on December 7, 2010 at 4:56pm

Oh, for Geesie cheesie sake! You can not be catholic and rational. Catholicism is a cult branch of cult judyism. Give up Judy and give up the supernatural crap or else wallow in it and be miserable.

Permalink Reply by Nathan Hevenstone on December 7, 2010 at 10:23pm

I hate to say it, but... give up the Catholicism. This moron (and I refuse to mince words or be PC... he reads like a moron) needs to recognize that no matter what it says in the Bible, homosexuality is entirely natural.

He needs to drop teh religious act... it will kill him one day.

Permalink Reply by Joseph P on December 8, 2010 at 2:02am

Yeah, I don't know what else to suggest besides beating the atheism gong. He knows the lie of Christianity, that homosexuality is choosing to sin and is always a choice. He just has to put the logical chain together to its inevitable conclusion. Homosexuality and Catholicism can never live peacefully in the same mind, unless the person has zero sex drive.

Permalink Reply by Anette on December 8, 2010 at 3:49am

He's an active Catholic. Unless you can convince him there isn't a God (Which you won't), then not much you can do.

Poor guy. Guilt is something that comes naturally to humans when they begin to empathize and understand cause and effect. Having it forced on you, is so damaging it's really disgusting. I can see why you'd want to help, but I don't really think you can.

I guess you COULD point him to some of John Shelby Spongs books. He is a believer in a "god" but shows through the actual text and history of christianity why it never actually claims that homo-sexuality is wrong. If you are dealing with a believer, you have to work within the belief and not try and change it entirely. Just give him food for thought.(IE It is suspected in Theological circles that Saul/Paul was Gay. Shelby explains why this is a very popular theory and it explains a LOT of Paul's attitudes towards women)

Permalink Reply by Richard Healy on December 8, 2010 at 5:26am

To all.

Thanks.


I've tried to be a bit more critical today of the suppositions he's relying upon, not to be overly critical (which I could be) but just asking questions seeing if I can get someone so mired in irrational thinking to deploy a spot of rationality to his problem.

We'll see if it works.

I have a competitor in that thread - an atheist turned Christian(!) - who thinks I'm offensive and condescending, and has themselves already been preaching an accomodationist perspective.
(the prohibitihon about not eatign shellfish was about God's advice regarding good hygiene and the thing about killing gays... well not actually ever withdrawn but he's sure god didn't really mean it...)

It is to his posts that the guilt-ridden fellow has replied praising his 'friendship'

and today he came back posting again about the story of Onan and how he has ceased masturbating becuase of it, how his body is a temple to be kept pure as a sacrifice to god, any sex outside of amrriage is a grave sin ... followed up with but when I have gay sex I feel so guilty. .... Duh.

He's so steeped in his contradictory beliefs I don't think he sees the contradiction nor the solution.

His final thought today was: "perhaps I should committ myself even more to christ's sacrifice on the cross his endurance at calvary to absolve me of my sins. What do you think?"

*roll eyes*

The atheist-turned-christian trotted out the "let he who is without sin" line, I had to chop off both my hands to prevent myself pointing out that story isn't originally in the gospel of John and was likely inserted by a scribe who thougth it sounded cool. cos then I'd be being offensive again....

Permalink Reply by Joseph P on December 8, 2010 at 6:19am

and today he came back posting again about the story of Onan and how he has ceased masturbating becuase of it, how his body is a temple to be kept pure as a sacrifice to god, any sex outside of amrriage is a grave sin ... followed up with but when I have gay sex I feel so guilty. .... Duh.

Wow, you can nip this one in the bud right now. Has the guy read Genesis? The sin of Onan is bullshit. It's not referring to masturbation. It's a violation of the commands of God, considering progeny. God commands men to sleep with their dead brothers' widows, to continue the brothers' line. Onan didn't do this. He wasn't even masturbating; he was having sex and then pulling out. That's what pissed God off, Onan taking the pleasure of his brother's widow but denying his brother his line.

This is one of the most outrageous and stupid, deliberate misinterpretations of the Bible in modern Christianity. Anyone who reads the passage and thinks for 60 seconds can't come to any other conclusion, if they're being honest. Tell him to read Genesis 38.

Permalink Reply by dr kellie on December 9, 2010 at 5:15pm

Great suggestion for some, but it doesn't work for catholics.   Even if the bible said being gay was fine, the pope still says it is wrong, and that is good enough for those nut jobs.

Permalink Reply by Joseph P on December 10, 2010 at 1:10am

Yeah, I can confirm this one, having been raised Catholic.  Catholics in no way subscribe to Biblical literalism.  Heck, they'd probably be okay with the lack of evidence of the Jewish Exodus proving that the Jews were never in Egypt.  They already accept so much of the Bible as metaphor and parable.

 

I could almost commend them for updating the faith, if it weren't for the fact that they suck so badly at it ... and of course the updates are just as mindless and not backed up by evidence as the original.  And of course there's all of the other evil things they do.

Permalink Reply by dr kellie on December 9, 2010 at 5:22pm

I was doing it with a catholic lady who is really big into the church and well known in town.  Oh, and she works for Steve Ogden.  Anyway, she has always been pretty dykey.  She won't deny being gay, but she denies herself gay sex and masturbation.  Until she can't stand it and then she calls me.  Or she used to call me.  I finally had to cut it off (even though I was enjoying it and found her quite attractive, despite the catholic thing) because I couldn't handle her crying over the guilt.  Hot sex is ruined by having an older woman crying in your bed the next morning.  She has been torturing herself her whole life.  And she REALLY enjoys sex.  Sad, for everyone involved.  Not my problem anymore. 

 

I hope that poor guy doesn't end up a bitter old woman like my friend.

Permalink Reply by The Snide Atheist on December 16, 2010 at 3:01pm

People who don't like feeling guilty, don't.

Permalink Reply by JOHN RENAUDETTE on January 1, 2011 at 9:50am

I read your predicament and then some of the harsh responses you got in reference to your situation and thought I would throw my two cents in. I like yourself was raised a Catholic and had a fairly horrible child hood, foster homes, abuse etc and one of the things that helped me most during those years was my belief in God and the comfort I got when I prayed. The hard line atheist’s here who have never had a passion and commitment to God simply cannot understand your turmoil and if they could get a glimpse of the pain one suffers when trying to do what is supposed to be right they might just appreciate the use of the crutch we call religion when your young and simply trying to be what you think God asks of you. If I did not have that crutch available when I was younger I am sure I would be a much more cynical negative person today. When you begin to question whats right and wrong when dealing with the God concept and the ridiculous rules concerning sexuality, moral behavior etc. its extremely arduous. It took me a decade to give something up which was so important to me for my first 30 years of life. The entire process took over ten years because I wanted so badly to believe in the fairytale. My only advise to you now is to simply question whats in your heart concerning matters of right and wrong and how can loving someone or doing something that brings two people joy be wrong? Who are you hurting other than yourself by not being who you really are? With time you will come up with your own moral declaration or maybe even be saved from the lie’s you have been taught since birth, I wish that I could say its easy but unfortunately becoming saved and walking away from the fairy tale is a painful process. I wish you luck and hope some of these comments help, trust me your far from being alone out there.

Sincerely John.