Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jo Jerome on May 10, 2010 at 11:23am

So much in the bible that is either unscientitic, superstitious folk grappling to explain the world around them, and/or poetic imagery.

The more I delve into it the more it feels to me like more and more of the latter.

Especially with Genesis starting out with two differing-in-details creation stories. I wondered as a kid if that's the author's way of making sure we don't take it too literally.

But alas, so many Xians today argue that it's all literal. Ok then, when I ask you how you're able to fly through the floor of heaven (above the clouds), don't go telling me that clouds-as-god's-dusty-footprints is just poetic metaphor.

And if it is, that opens up any or all verses as poetic metaphor. Unless there's some answer-key/ teacher's-coppy supplement among the dead sea scrolls that we aren't aware of.

Permalink Reply by Sean M Hebner on May 10, 2010 at 4:26pm

yeah i'm thinking thats the long of the short of it......its so.......interesting...that people as soon as you bring up a question, they go and pull somting out there ass as too what would be a reason....

My girlfriend for example....she dusted off the killing of that dude that couldn't knock up his sister-in-law, because it was an "order from god" ... ....

I wish most Christians would just freakin say i don't know

Permalink Reply by Jo Jerome on May 16, 2010 at 9:44pm

Correcting myself: So much in the bible that is either unscientific, superstitious folk grappling to explain

Wow - what was I on that day? Must ... proofread ...

Meanwhile, can not recommend it highly or often enough; "When They Severed Earth From Sky: How the Human Mind Shapes Myth. Very enjoyable read and explores myth from a wide variety of angles to answer a lot of the 'why' behind them.

Permalink Reply by Sean M Hebner on May 17, 2010 at 12:57pm

thanks for the heads up....

I can't spell to save my life....

the only word I can spell most consistently... is Antitransmanificationdupandandurility
so don't worry about the spelling thing..

Permalink Reply by Jo Jerome on May 25, 2010 at 1:58pm

LOL!

Well, the very occasional spelling error I can get away with. But if I dare to misuse an apostrophe, I'm fairly certain the ghost of my mother will return to whack me upside the head for it.

Mom was a real stickler for spelling and grammar, and I'm eternally grateful for it.

Permalink Reply by Sean M Hebner on May 26, 2010 at 7:48pm

awesome!! I'm glad you had a good relationship with your mom!

Permalink Reply by Jo Jerome on June 5, 2010 at 2:20pm

Well, the relationship had its flaws, but there were indeed many upsides. Like Mom really pushing the importance of spelling/grammar as a key element in being taken seriously by others.

And how to spot when others are potentially full of shite.

Permalink Reply by Sean M Hebner on June 11, 2010 at 10:23am

I can't remember when I decided that "the formal rules of English can blow me," but it was a time when I fancied myself a poet. Therefor, the rules didn't apply to me. That's kinda the short version. As an afterthought, I think my spelling isn't so hot, because I memorize a LOT of stuff when I'm learning things....its just MORE to learn.

Permalink Reply by Jo Jerome on October 23, 2010 at 4:27pm

It suddenly dawned on me: Should astronauts be considered gods (for being able to break through the firmament) or simply evil scientists "playing god?"

And if it's the latter, why does god allow them to break through the firmament? Shitty security system?

Permalink Reply by Craigart14 on July 17, 2011 at 4:01pm

In Gen 1,  the earth is "without form . . . and there [is] darkness over the face of the waters.  God creates a firmament to "separate the waters from the waters."  The Hebrew word usually translated as "firmament" or "vault" is derived from the verb "raqquiah" (spelling probably wrong), which means to "hammer out," as a craftsman might hammer out a bowl from a piece of metal.  It's clearly meant to be a solid dome, and the stars are "tiny lights" stuck on the inside of the dome.  The non-canonical "First Book of Enoch" gives a detailed description of a dome with six doors at its base in the east, and six more in the west.  The sun, it was believed, entered through the eastern doors, crossed the sky, and exited through the western doors, while the moon entered in the west and exited in the east.  There were six doors to account for the observation of the sun's apparent movement southward in winter.  Gen 1 describes the sun and the moon as "two great lights," but of course the moon is merely a reflector, with no light of its own.  Enoch is mentioned in the "begats" later in Genesis, so someone borrowed his name for this book.  Thus, "Enoch" is taken outside the dome by an angel, and observes that all is water (the "abyss" or underground sea which provides some of the water for the Great Flood and was considered the source of lakes, springs, seas, etc.)  This cosmological view was shared among Middle Eastern cultures for millennia before the beginning of the Common Era (1 AD or, as scholars say now, CE).  In Revelation, the stars are still believed to be small; some fall to earth and John, the narrator, says that he "walked past" a fallen star.  Of course, any "falling star" would vaporize the earth long before actually striking it.

 

It's all nonsense, but it was the best guess the ancient Hebrews could make, given the state of their knowledge and their non-scientific view of the world.  I have had students (Christians, of course) ask me how I could know "the universe wasn't really like that back then."  I generally look for the answer to that one in the bottom of a glass of Scotch.