New Testament as proof (of anything) of Historical figures/events

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jo Jerome on January 7, 2010 at 9:28pm

It's part of the double-speak and circular (non)logic I hear from otherwise intelligent people who try and defend their faith.

Them: "Blah, blah, blah."

Me: "And how do you know that's true?"

Them: "Because it's in the bible."

Me: "So you believe that clouds are not water vapor but God's dusty footprints on Heaven's floor? Because that's in the bible too."

Them: "Well obviously that's just metaphor."

Me: "So not everything in the bible is literally true?"

Them: "No. Not everything."

Me: "So how do you know blah, blah, blah is true?"

Them: "Because it's in the bible."

Me: *Facepalm*

Permalink Reply by Jo Jerome on January 7, 2010 at 9:37pm

Although, I did hear once from an otherwise-educated evangelical a rather crafty explanation of the two conflicting genealogies of Jesus in the NT: He said that sometimes in Jewish tradition, they'd skip names. "Grandfather begat you." Therefore, all the names in both genealogies are correct.

I haven't heard this anywhere else, but it actually does sound plausible. Or a plausible-sounding but crafty invention to get around that particular contradiction.

One contradiction down. A few hundred more to go.

Permalink Reply by D.O.S on January 8, 2010 at 10:43am

I don't see how that would be plausible in terms of historical research. There is nothing verifiable and his explanation would make an already impossible task that much harder. The NT genealogies are based on? Old Testament? Which is based on? They do come up with interesting ways to subvert the real questions at hand and finding ways around legitimate scholarship. But I could do the same in an attempt to "prove" Leprechauns are real and base it on "historical" research.

I've heard other strange theories about the geneologies regarding variations in spelling. None of them reallly pan out. It's the same principle they try to use in justifying the "Bible Code."

Permalink Reply by Jo Jerome on January 9, 2010 at 9:07pm

I call it 'plausible' in how oral histories and myths get passed down. Names commonly get lost for a number of reasons. Grandfather and grandson are famous in the community but father is not. Or father was outcast/an embarrassment somehow and we'd rather forget him. Or you have John I, John II and John III, who, in the passing of time, all get lumped together as one guy named 'John.'

"Plausible"

I've never heard of this being an official, recognized, deliberate practice of the region. As compared to, say, attributing authorship of the sermon or gospel you just wrote to a now-dead mentor. Or plagiarizing a common story or myth and simply attaching your guy's name and your own spin to it.

If anything, knowing how names are commonly skipped gives the story less credibility in my opinion, not more, as these are also methods that go hand-in-hand with embellishing the whole story to begin with.

But to a layman's ears, it's an explanation that sounds good and most conveniently can't be verified one way or another. Hence my comment that even if I give the person that explanation, that's one of hundreds of contradictions.

Permalink Reply by D.O.S on January 10, 2010 at 8:09am

Oral histories are dicey that way. I like oral history but tend not to view that as actual history unless there are separate verifiable sources that confirm at least the basic content of said "history." I think my misunderstanding was one of semantics. I deem something plausible if it is at least possible to verify historically. Which virtually eliminates the whole bible for legitimate historical research, with just a few minor exceptions.

:)

Permalink Reply by Erik Weissengruber on October 3, 2011 at 9:42am

I would also like to find a good source that addresses the theopolitical propaganda in the Old Testament. What was the relationship between a temple complex in Jerusalem, royal dynasties, and the changing religious beliefs of those power centres and the population they governed.