Reforming Counter-Apologetics

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Reforming Counter-Apologetics

Dedicated to realizing the fundamental impulses that drive belief, and seeking secular parallels ~ creating a format for discussion that doesn't address apologetical arguments as much as it replaces the need for those arguments to begin with.

Members: 51
Latest Activity: Mar 7

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Formulating a New Argument

Started by Park Bierbower. Last reply by Jedi Wanderer Jun 16, 2012. 11 Replies

I was listening to a podcast a few weeks ago, and they were covering the apologetical argument known as Pre-supposational Apologetics.  Its a clever argument, hard to refute if you're not already…Continue

Analytic thinking can decrease religious belief

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Steph S. Apr 27, 2012. 1 Reply

Analytic Thinking Can Decrease Religious Belief, Study ShowsJust using their "analytic" system of thinking…Continue

Impulse that drives belief -death anxiety?

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Grinning Cat Apr 4, 2012. 1 Reply

New University of Otago research suggests that when non-religious people think about their own death they become more consciously skeptical about religion, but unconsciously grow more receptive to…Continue

Tags: fear of death

The Accursed Argument (from lack of proof)

Started by Jedi Wanderer. Last reply by Jedi Wanderer Jan 8, 2012. 13 Replies

All of us should by now be intimately familiar with this argument. It is the foundation of the arguments used by a religious friend of mine that I met on MySpace and have argued extensively on the…Continue

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Comment by Marc Draco on February 2, 2011 at 6:30am

LOL! You said it buddy!

 

I think memes have been sold badly - memoryplexes are more easily digestible (I think) and although the two are closely linked, memoryplexes are harder to dismiss - unless you believe that quantum effects are altering your brain...

Comment by Jedi Wanderer on February 2, 2011 at 5:49am
Even the easiest things to explain to people are difficult for morons and those stuck in their own way of thinking. Just woke up (on the wrong side of the bed?).
Comment by Marc Draco on February 2, 2011 at 5:06am

@Wanderer, this is indeed the case. I've identified another couple of 'plexes - which may or may not be specific:

 

socio-economic and socio-political. Socio-economic is quite well defined here in England - you can move just a few meters between "good" areas and bad ones. A 'plex I recall growing up was between teenage girls who knew that becoming pregnant was an easy way to get a free house (yeah, an entire HOUSE) and all their meals, etc. paid for essentially forever.

Like all ingrained 'plexes, this one is a bugger to shift. A more recent one you might have seen on the UK news if you get it, was the introduction and subsequent removal of Education Maintenance Allowance - EMA.

EMA was supposed to help poorer kids get an education; but when the government found it was too expensive (and benefiting the wrong groups) there was an outcry. The typical response was "Leave My EMA alone."

Note the "my" in that sentence. The students think they have some automatic right to it - this is part of the memoryplex and it was reinforced by student groups and other interested parties.

This is also a meme - but I think that meme's are the carriers; it's the 'plexes that are the problem. The other thing about 'plexes is that they are easier to explain which might make them more digestible to people.

Comment by obfuscate on February 1, 2011 at 7:58pm
I have not said so here yet, so thanks to all for the welcome. I'll be reading over all the previously posted content here soon so I can catch up and give my two cents. I'm delighted at all the good discussion I'm finding myself involved in on this site. It seems like there are a lot of bright minds in this group. (No pun intended)
Comment by Jedi Wanderer on February 1, 2011 at 6:29pm
These new complexes you bring up, Marc, are interesting. Basically these refer to culture, whether it be one's family culture or larger, tribal or community culture. I think this is a point well worth pointing out early and often. A great deal of how we think about the world comes from these 'plexes, and it seems rather rare actually (even within the scientific community, but to a lesser degree) that people manage to put their own cultures into the broader perspective necessary to come to a truly Human understanding.
Comment by Marc Draco on February 1, 2011 at 1:47pm

Right, I've been pondering the memoryplex issue and I've identified some other 'plexes that might be in play.

The most basic one above the individual is the familial memoryplex - i.e. the family unit - in particular a close-nit one.

Then there's the tribal or communal memoryplex which is a group of similar minded individuals with a common goal.This might be a group of atheists, hackers or even a religious group. The interesting one about this is there are multiple defined examples - some of which are more connected than others.

Others come to mind but they are so dispersed that I doubt they have any bearing.

Any thoughts welcome.

Comment by Park Bierbower on February 1, 2011 at 11:13am
So I've taken the first tiny step in testing some theories that pertain to this group~ by sending a carefully worded email to a popular creationist I've had textual dialogue with in New Jersey. You can find my statement to him in the Step One discussion, let me know what you think the strong points and weaknesses are.
Comment by Jedi Wanderer on January 31, 2011 at 12:21pm

And Heather, obfuscate, Joseph... welcome new members!

Comment by Park Bierbower on January 30, 2011 at 7:19pm
Don't forget Eric!
Comment by Jedi Wanderer on January 30, 2011 at 7:03pm
Welcome, new members Tara, Lyra, and Dr. Meaden! Glad to have you and looking fwd to your contributions to the group.
 

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