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Reforming Counter-Apologetics

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Dedicated to realizing the fundamental impulses that drive belief, and seeking secular parallels ~ creating a format for discussion that doesn't address apologetical arguments as much as it replaces the need for those arguments to begin with.

Members: 53
Latest Activity: Dec 15, 2012

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Discussion Forum

Formulating a New Argument

Started by Park Bierbower. Last reply by Jedi Wanderer Jun 16, 2012. 11 Replies 1 Like

I was listening to a podcast a few weeks ago, and they were covering the apologetical argument known as Pre-supposational Apologetics. Its a clever argument, hard to refute if you're not already…Continue

Analytic thinking can decrease religious belief

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Steph S. Apr 27, 2012. 1 Reply 0 Likes

Analytic Thinking Can Decrease Religious Belief, Study ShowsJust using their "analytic" system of thinking…Continue

Impulse that drives belief -death anxiety?

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Grinning Cat Apr 4, 2012. 1 Reply 0 Likes

New University of Otago research suggests that when non-religious people think about their own death they become more consciously skeptical about religion, but unconsciously grow more receptive to…Continue

Tags: fear of death

The Accursed Argument (from lack of proof)

Started by Jedi Wanderer. Last reply by Jedi Wanderer Jan 8, 2012. 13 Replies 0 Likes

All of us should by now be intimately familiar with this argument. It is the foundation of the arguments used by a religious friend of mine that I met on MySpace and have argued extensively on the…Continue

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Comment by thewoodenwand on June 9, 2012 at 4:45pm: So if you have no self respect you are going to be immoral?
You can hate yourself but still respect or be in awe of something or someone or even worship it without self respect you can even subscribe to a high moral code. BUT If you have an appreciation of life and the freedom to make decisions in and/or outside of your mind then you can consciously make decisions based on "respect for you and others "life(s) or things". When you are put to death for murdering someone you have limited your free will, when you are jailed for assaulting someone or destroying something you have limited free will, when you have lost self respect from willfully doing something you did not want to do you lose free will to live a regret free life, "Conscience" is not respect but free will based.

Comment by Jedi Wanderer on June 9, 2012 at 11:03am: TWW, while I don't believe in free will and think morality does not depend on considering our will to be "free", what you say about self-respect is, I think, right on the money. A positive sense of self, including having self-esteem and self-respect, is at the very core of our system of values.

Comment by thewoodenwand on June 8, 2012 at 11:37am: Organized religion is being questioned by the poor, intelligent and the disenchanted. I think a respect for the gift of free will from where ever it comes from is a good enough reason for everyone to behave morally. Lose your self respect and lose your ability to make un-clouded decisions, especially if you get caught and end up in Jail!

Comment by Mika Dukat on July 23, 2011 at 6:39pm: Hrm. Not sure what this group is about, but the brief description sounds like it may be in my ballpark. For some time I have believed that understanding the emotional basis of reasoning, bounded rationality and the logic/psychology of social discourses will yield more productive tools for creating healthy belief systems than mutual antagonism and political battles. If that's not in line with the aims of this group, please let me know so that I can sneak out the back way.

Comment by Marc Draco on February 19, 2011 at 2:16pm: Ironic? Pah! That's too good for plain irony, that's bounding on poke in the eye with a septum.

Comment by epochonaut on February 19, 2011 at 5:02am: Good idea. Might I recommend http://www.loopnet.com/Churches-For-Sale/

The irony would be too delicious to pass up!

Comment by leveni on February 17, 2011 at 7:27am: I just finished reading everything here, and realized I have zero interest in the ultimate goal that exists here. But I am really interested in the "Animal sense of self" thing.

As for religion, it is dieing out. In every country.
I actually feel sorry for believers. I help cook food at a local church for the homeless and others who live in boarding houses and half-way houses in the area. The Christians there always ask me if I want to pray with them, I always politely apologize and say 'no' and leave after cleaning up. None of the homeless, ex-cons or other people there believe in God. They just go there for the free food. It is a sad sight when you see 2 or 3 Christians, holding hands and praying to god in the kitchen of a church.

But i hope I'm not deterring anyone.

If I had the money I'd start something like a 'science house' where the homeless and those who live in boarding houses could come and eat for free once a week and if they wanted to, watch a documentary or something. And during the rest of the week have volunteers there to help with student home work and teaching people how to improve there reading etc. I wouldn't mention atheism or anything to the people who came though, unless of course they asked me.

Comment by Jedi Wanderer on February 16, 2011 at 10:09am: And add Libya to the mix. Down with that unbelievable dictator Ghaddafi! Bahrain is looking like it has the best chance of actually changing their government.

Comment by Jedi Wanderer on February 15, 2011 at 6:56pm: Busy news day today btw. Protests spurred by the revolution in Egypt have occurred in Iran, Syria, Tunisia, Yemen, and Bahrain. I've been to Bahrain, gorgeous little Island of the coast of Saudi Arabia. Would love to go back there to a democracy rather than a monarchy.