Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Lori Gilliland on May 14, 2011 at 10:34am

It's hard for an American to answer your question. We do not have religious instruction in the public schools and do not have to face the decision you do. I'm sorry you have to do so. But, I let my daughter attend mass with her father until she got older and decided she no longer wanted to go. I would not prevent religious instruction, I think children should be exposed to it, and then as a parent discuss with the child your thoughts on the subject. Most kids I know do not take the religious education seriously, and if you are involved, your child will be much better off. I have seen some kids who are too protected from religious indoctrination can be easier to convert later in life.
Good luck

Permalink Reply by Dawn K on May 14, 2011 at 10:42am

It's so different than here in the U.S. that I really don't have much to comment on. Would the school actually share your religious affiliation with other people? That just seems wrong (of course once on paper these things seem to have a way of getting out).

 

Good luck with that!

Permalink Reply by Jedi Wanderer on May 15, 2011 at 4:16pm

Firstly, I must say I am surprised that there are places worse than the US, places which aren't developing nations anyway. Well, truly I don't know anything about South Africa, but the US has similar problems, though I would have to agree with the others that they seem not all that bad in comparison. Anyway, it does seem particularly difficult, I certainly don't envy your position. Another thing I would say is that having gone to religious schools and whatnot and having to go through all the tedious rituals, well, that probably did have a lot to do with me being still firmer in my atheism. I don't want my kids learning that junk, but I don't know, maybe it will innoculate them. I'll have to think more about this one.



Thanks for this post, Elaine. I wouldn't try to make too much of a stand here, it doesn't look like it would have much effect other than perhaps a negative one. I might have answered the question asking for reasons for why you object to your child engaging in religious practices with something that makes the question seem ridiculous (which of course it is). Maybe "you furnish me with reasons why my kid should engage in religious practices and I'll furnish you with reasons why she shouldn't." Or, "my reasons are my own, and they are none of your business. Now respect my wishes with my child, and keep your nose out of my personal system of beliefs". Or "none of your damn business". I completely understand the desire for wanting to go into a huge tirade and explain the world to these people so that your place in it makes sense to them, but that's just not gonna happen. Since they won't understand your position, feel no need to explain it to them. There's another good response. Good luck, let us know how it turns out.

Permalink Reply by Vitomama on May 17, 2011 at 12:55pm

Elaine, I don't envy your conundrum. Our boy Vito is in first grade in a small, but liberal town in the Northeastern U.S. He has also attended school in a large Conservative city in the Midwest. We have found that, in spite of our "non-religious" public school system (for which his current school admirably tries to respect), most of his friends attend church or at least claim a belief in god. My husband and I prefer to use the term 'anti-theist' for ourselves - it leaves no question as to our lack of belief in a supreme being. However, we impress upon Vito the fact that he is too young to completely understand what all of that means. He'll have to wait awhile - learn more as he goes - before he can make that decision for himself. When he says that he doesn't believe in god (another example of how most children think what their parents think), we make him tell us why. And we reinforce the fact that he will learn more as he matures. It's just like our conversations about kissing, etc. He knows there's more to learn and we're not ready to go there yet. His friends at school encourage him to come to their church, where they have snacks and movies - it's FUN! He understands that it's just like the Happy Meal at McDonald's - a way to bring you in - that's fair, but we're still the parents. As to the issue of letting him GO to church - absolutely not. Church is not the way to teach a child the facts in an objective way. So, I guess what I'm saying is that it really lies with you and your child. Authority figures are HUGE to a child. We have already had several opportunities to let Vito know that his teachers aren't always right - that we're all just people. But it's a constant battle to keep up with what's being put into his head and balancing that with teaching him to have, not only an open mind, but respect for other people's choices. I wish you the best of luck and hope that you will update us. Skol!

Permalink Reply by Giga Gnome on June 7, 2011 at 10:36am

Thank you so much for everyone's responses. 

 

I eventually sent in the application with Non-Religious, and where it asked if I will allow her to take part in religios activities I said no.

 

Under reason I said : We welcome religious education as compiled by the Department of Education and including the numerous world religions. We do not however allow her to take part in any activities which are worship or obeisant or limited to only one religion.

 

When handing it in I saw the lady go through the pages and Check the answer with a raised eyebrow :) I just smiled. She didn't ask anything else. Because we are in the catchment area for the school I doubt that she will not be let in, I just hope that there won't be any later issues. And to make me feel better I did speak to another non-religious parent who has a child there, who said the school have been really good about that kind of thing.

 

 

Permalink Reply by Giga Gnome on June 7, 2011 at 10:37am

Sorry it took me so long to get back and reply. I've had exams etc etc. I followed the replies via email and just never had a chance to pop in again. :)

Permalink Reply by Grace Fitzpatrick on June 7, 2011 at 10:48am

I don't know what the homeschooling laws are in your country, but I homeschool my girls using an online secular virtual school where they and I are very happy.

Permalink Reply by Jedi Wanderer on June 7, 2011 at 1:10pm

Grace, may I ask what is the "online secular virtual school" that you use with your daughters? Perhaps there is a link you could post? I would love to learn more about such a thing.

Permalink Reply by Dawn K on June 7, 2011 at 1:45pm

I don't know if this is the one that Grace uses but one that is common is k12.com. In some states it is a charter public school and therefore all public school rules apply (here's a link to the MA virtual school that opened this fall), where they are not an approved public school you can use it as a private school or just for individual courses. 

Permalink Reply by Grace Fitzpatrick on June 7, 2011 at 4:32pm

I use www.time4learning.com  It only goes up to grade 8, but it is wonderful.  You just have to make sure your kids do it everyday.  They keep all the records and do all the testing for you.  Plus you can adjust what grade level your child is in each subject.  For example. my dd is on 3rd grade level for social studies and science, and 2nd for math and reading.  She can actually read at 3rd or 4th grade level, she is just lazy on taking the tests.  When the child has completed a section, it puts a star on this section and a check mark on the units within the section.  I thought she was horribly behind on her reading assignments, but she just wasn't taking the tests. 

 

If your state requires standardized testing, you'll have to get that through a homeschooling group since most states won't allow you to test your own child.  Time4learning has complied all the standards for all 50 states and meets or exceeds all their requirements.   I showed the neighbor boy who is in fourth grade  what my dd was doing in 2nd grade math and it was the same thing.  Their math has a lot of math theory that I don't think I even learned in college.  

 

We tried Hawaii Virtual School (free if you live in Hawaii) and it was just online textbooks.  I am no fan of the online textbook for 1st graders.  It was hard to keep your place marked and it was not at all what I wanted.  I wanted a real school online where I just helped not to do the whole thing myself.  Plus it cost $695 a year. 

 

Time4Learning is $20/month for the first child and $15/month for each additional child.  That is less than you'll pay in lunch money alone.  For an additional $10/year my daughter takes art lessons which not only teaches her how to do computer art, but art theory as well.  Since she wants to be an artist, I think this is a bargain.  You can also get supplementary reading and spelling over the summer.  I choose not to do that since we are homeschooling through the summer anyway. 

 

They have parent forums as well which I haven't used.  Dh is building a computer for dd and when she has her own computer, she can post her art to their online art gallery and chat with other time4learning kids in their private chat rooms.  It's site membership exclusive, so you don't have to worry so much about weirdos. 

 

We've been really pleased with time4learning.  Even though it's the cheapest one out there, we like it the best.  If you live in a state that supports it, Connections Academy is free.  It's a great program.  it truly is public school at home with teachers calling you and coming by to offer private tutoring.   They keep close tabs on when and how much time your child is spending on school work.  So say your kid is really burned out and you're letting them take a break, but it's during the normal school year.  You may get a call from the teacher.  I didn't want to put up with that crap.  I know people who love it, but I don't know anyone whose used it for more than a year.  Plus if your state doesn't support it, the program is around $3,000/ year. 

 

Let's go to the topic of cost...

Some of these online schools are expensive.  I think it was Calvert which cost $12,000/ year.  I think k12 charges per course and can be a little pricey.  Religious programs seem to cost a little less than secular ones.  Of course, there's a lot more of them.  too.  If you want to go do it yourself textbook way many christians prefer, it's hard to find a 100% religion free series.  Singapore Math is one and I think I remember a couple of others.  They cost a bit and it's harder to find them used at homeschool book sales, because so many traditional homeschoolers are doing it for religious reasons. 

 

The reading selection at time4learning is almost completely about science.  My dd loves science and hates books with princesses or frogs that talk.  She also hated the simple minded stories in her reading textbooks.  She'd rather read about volcanoes and spiders than see spot run.  The reading area is mainly a science area.  She likes that. 

 

One of my problems was finding a virtual school or traditional program with a strong emphasis in math and science.  There is almost no science out there for young kids which is just a tragedy, imo.  Time4learning has a strong emphasis in both areas which I like.  The social studies area is okay.  Not great, but that's not really a problem for me as I have a master's in history and we supplement that area a lot with trips to museums and stuff like that.  For example, we took our daughters on a stage coach ride, which really makes you appreciate modern transportation. 

 

It depends on what you want.  Time4learning is a really good fit for us in every way.  The younger grades are taught by cartoon characters which my autistic dd really relates to better than people.  For her, this has been a great experience.  Traditional homeschooling, not so much.  We just had a terrible time getting across those math concepts.  I think the traditional way would not have worked for her in a brick and mortar school with a teacher either.

 

She's been really happy with time4learning and it's not a battle to get her to do schoolwork.  i don't know what will work for your family.  This program works well for us. 

Permalink Reply by Jedi Wanderer on June 7, 2011 at 7:03pm

Thanks a bunch! My kids are still very young (5, almost 4 and 2 1/2), so I don't know if they are ready for such programs but these are definitely worth keeping in mind. Grace, you really gave me a whole lot of great information, I really appreciate it! And thanks to you too Dawn, I will check out k12 and time4learning and all these other great resources. My 5 year old has PDD (which is like autism but also not like it), and I think he would really get a lot out of learning from cartoons more than from actual people too, so that is really helpful Grace.

 

I think it is very important for children to get to interact with other children their age, and I am also still looking fwd to my kids all being at school so I can do some things for myself for a change, so for those reasons and more I do still want my kids to go to the traditional school and such. However, and especially for my special needs child, having extra resources is never a bad thing and if there is a way for us to use these online schools to our advantage and to get ahead, I'll be very happy if it works. I would love my kids to skip a grade or two and get started early on college. The earlier the faster the better, if they can do it without burning out as you say Grace. The world is only getting to be a harder place to make it, problems are growing on local and global levels in so many profound ways, and we need to help our children to become more able and more competitive out there to help them make it in such a challenging and changing world, so, every bit helps! Thanks a lot you two!

Permalink Reply by Dawn K on June 7, 2011 at 7:34pm

We're going off on a tangent but anyway...

 

I always thought I would supplement what my kids did in trad. school but when my (now) 8 yo started I realized that for us that was unrealistic. By the time he got home from school and finished homework the last thing I (or he) wanted to do was ask him to do more school stuff. I started homeschooling him this year and it's been awesome. I don't do an online program like Grace, we piece together our lessons using different curricula, but it's worked for us. As for interacting with other kids, they do that all the time and more than they would in school (which isn't for socializing after-all) with a variety of ages. If you want your kids to get a head start on college though, lots of homeschoolers do community college classes in high school. Some end up with an associates degree by the time they are 18 and then move on to a 4 year. Just something to chew on. :)

 

I did not always have a high opinion of home educating but once I did some research I found that I held a lot of misconceptions about what it means to be a homeschooler. I don't talk about it often in "mixed" company, but I'm very happy with our choice so far.

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