ORIGINS: UNIVERSE, LIFE, HUMANKIND, AND DARWIN

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Comment by Marc Draco on September 30, 2011 at 4:00pm

Another reason why religion is particularly dangerous to the mentally ill (which could be anyone, at any time!) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15128057

Comment by Marc Draco on September 30, 2011 at 8:26am

Fil, there is another problem with feedback loops (although I like the analogy).

When we're designing a loop we know what the open loop performance is, so we know how much feedback to apply to achieve the result we want. I get the idea (from Black's paper) that negative feedback corrects unwanted artifacts, but the trouble is that outside of a closed system we have to deal with other unwanted factors.

Brainwashing cults work like this - they create a closed system and use feedback to control people. When people escape those boundaries they are free from the system - which is why these cults are so careful to keep followers in check.

 

Right, back to bed with me...

Comment by Greg LeGore on September 30, 2011 at 5:53am

Fil, appreciate your clarification which actually was closer to what I was thinking - simply that we need to strengthen those things which can bring about a healthier, more sane and fair society...better public health, superb education for all, clean water and air, employment which is not based upon exploitation (e.g., underpaying).  You rightly note that positive actions are not enough, that we need to reduce the effects of negative influences, of which religion is at the top, along with tribalism.

Comment by Alice on September 30, 2011 at 1:54am

OK I follow the logic.  Can anyone give me a real life example of how this might play out?  Like a role play...

Comment by Neil Thompson on September 30, 2011 at 12:45am

I'm not sure if I agree with your idea of a positive feedback loop Alice. The way I was taught it, a positive feedback loop is like a group of people in a bar, talking. Each tries to make themself heard over the others with the result that the volume increases. A negative feedback loop is like a central heating system. When the temperature rises, the thermostat kicks in and turns it off, thus regulating the temperature. Whe it falls below a certain level it turns it back on again, thus regulating the temperature within a defined range. Thus the positive feedback loop leads to uncontrolled excess, a negative feedback loop leads to a controlled state, exactly as described by Greg. Is that what you meant?

Comment by Alice on September 29, 2011 at 11:31pm

I like the idea of a positive feedback loop - I think the negative metaphor is mis guided.  Even with the best effort to create a positive feedback loop - there are SO many causal factors - you'd be lucky to even remember the original intention.  There's no fear in aiming with all your efforts to create a positive feedback loop.

Comment by Marc Draco on September 27, 2011 at 4:49pm

Tee hee, Chris. Yes indeed. I'm not sure if I can post the clip here - it's better heard in context; the show itself is worth looking out for if you can get it where you live. Although it's very UK centric (many characters in hell are our most hated celebs) a lot of religious jokes will have you rolling around.

Comment by Chris Dodds on September 27, 2011 at 4:46pm

@Marc Draco  Suddenly the last line of the Old Testament makes sense - "And the lord said,'And I would've gotten away with it too if ti weren't for you mettling kids.'"

Comment by Troy Gorsline on September 27, 2011 at 12:10pm

I agree with both points made. I carry a vast amount of skeptism as in this country's political environment, having science glorified over religion - even evolution taught at all - is fast becomming an impossible feat.

Comment by AtheistTech on September 27, 2011 at 12:03pm

I agree Fil,

I would add that we should also teach critical thinking as early as possible  for our children. Education reform is important as a first step in getting rid of religion. Science should be glorified (for want of a better word). 

As for politics, I think it will be a struggle to change since we are a type of animal that is territorial, one that needs to be led. Our current social politics are not in step with our scientific knowledge. That is due to the enormous influence religion has on our politics.

So, education reform will allow science to become dominant, and when science becomes dominant, our politics will fall into place as well.

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