Comment

Comment by Alice on December 28, 2011 at 6:18pm

Charles - just above the comment wall is a link saying "+ Add a Discussion"  Please click on it and continue your disccussion there.  thanks :)

Comment by Susan Stanko on December 28, 2011 at 5:36pm

Is it really that hard to start a discussion, Charles?

Comment by Alice on December 28, 2011 at 4:47pm

Greg - our brains are plastic and if the drive is there, we can change our world view and learn - I've had a total turn around from age 30 to 35 and it's been great - almost like I struggled the first 30 years and now I've found something that makes sense....

Comment by james boag on December 28, 2011 at 11:11am

Excellent comment, it so clearly cleans away all the clutter.

Comment by Greg LeGore on December 28, 2011 at 9:12am

@Donny - agree with others - please disregard Charles.  Better to find more relevant, shorter comments which can help you.

@Alice and Joseph:  Sadly, BF Skinner noted that the beliefs and norms inculcated in the first five years of life were quite hard to remove or ameliorate later.  Certainly the case regarding any religion.  I wonder when we will look back at the false premises of any religion and think, 'How could we believe such nonsense and allow it to so deform ourselves, our families, and our communities?'

Comment by Joseph P on December 27, 2011 at 5:58pm

Sounds about right, now that I've skimmed his whole post.  Good lord, man.

We've already got a superior alternative to Christian morality.  Secular Humanism beats the nonsense in the Bible, easily.  If you want an alternative viewpoint on the subject, try Sam Harris's new book.

As for reaching your wife and daughter, who are still Christian?  Well, good luck with that.  Unless they're already of a skeptical mindset and are already questioning their faith, the best, likely result is frustration on your part.  More likely is your alienation of them.

Deconverting faith heads is best done in large groups.  You'll reach a few people, if you focus on hundreds or thousands.  If you pick out one or two people and focus on deconverting just them, you're almost certainly doomed to failure.  Deprogramming people from religion takes effort on their part, as well as yours.  If they're happy being religious, they'll have far too many emotional blocks up for them to be able to look at their religion rationally.

Your daughter sounds a bit too old for you to be able to influence her as a parent.  18 is just to old to train someone in critical thinking.  You have to start much younger than that.  She could pick it up later, sure, but she'd have to want it and meet you halfway.

Comment by Alice on December 27, 2011 at 4:37pm

Regarding the very long 'comment' below - it seems that this guy has been christian all his life - and heavily involved in the church - and now perhaps wishes to leave - but still has many of the indoctranations of the church.

Specifically he believes that we are all born beastly and unrefined and therefore need behavioural education - he feels very anxious that this is missing in the athiest world and therefore proposes a solution that we stop using money to fund 'religious' wars, and redirect that money to provide secular behavioural education.

To which I say - his premise is wrong - we are not born beastly; and atheist parents are quite capable of providing behavoural education to their children

This guy needs much help and support to overcome the indoctranation of the church.  Which he can find here or in the linked site Recovering from Religion.  By starting a disscussion called - "Please help me, I'm recovering from religious indoctranation and need to update my understanding of the world and how it works - especially regarding parenting." :)

Comment by Joseph P on December 27, 2011 at 2:30pm

But I LIKE train wrecks.

Comment by dr kellie on December 27, 2011 at 2:27pm

Agreed, Jim.  Don't waste your time, Joseph P.

Comment by Joseph P on December 27, 2011 at 9:50am

I've never seen a comment even half that long. Anything lengthy is generally put in the discussion threads. I haven't read it yet, myself. I'll check it out when I get back to the office.

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