ORIGINS: UNIVERSE, LIFE, HUMANKIND, AND DARWIN

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ORIGINS: UNIVERSE, LIFE, HUMANKIND, AND DARWIN

We debate origins of the Universe, life, Earth, humans, religion, atheism, using common sense, evolution, cosmology, geology, archaeology, and other sciences, to repel biblical creationism and other religious beliefs.

Location: Oxford University, England
Members: 4158
Latest Activity: 20 hours ago

The portrait is Charles Darwin, age 31, in 1840

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Comment by Chad Kreutzer on September 15, 2013 at 10:54pm

I just read an article on that very thing, Drew:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/our-humanity-naturally/201309/w...

Comment by Drew Carpenter on September 15, 2013 at 10:15pm

We don't elect atheists in this country. And that is only one of the good reason I can think of for not running.

Comment by Dorian Moises Mattar on September 15, 2013 at 10:06pm

Drew, you should run for president.

Comment by Drew Carpenter on September 15, 2013 at 9:28pm

It is discouraging that my home state of Texas insists on being ground zero for so many of these religion in school battles. I wish theists would realize that true freedom of religion means keeping it out of the government and out of the schools. I'm afraid that these fundamentalist don't actually want freedom of religion. They want their religion to dominate. Seems it has always been so.

Comment by Joseph P on September 15, 2013 at 11:29am

Heh, I know what you mean, Homer.  I pointed that out myself, somewhere on here.  I reject the concept of libertarian free will, but even if I accepted it, I don't see how it conflicts with Darwinian evolutionary theory.

Comment by Joseph P on September 15, 2013 at 11:06am

Shaun's weird assertion that the opinion of the majority of the uneducated masses should override that of the specialists just ... blows my mind.  I don't know about him, but I want structural engineers to design the bridges that I'll be driving over, not a committee of those who looked at a popup book full of bridges, once.

Comment by Homer Edward Price on September 15, 2013 at 11:04am

The real controversy here is not about creationism, but about free will.  And I disagree that Darwinism is incompatible with free will.  The only version of Darwinism that is strictly deterministic is the "selfish gene" perspective of Richard Dawkins.  He argues that the individual gene, not the organism, is what evolves by natural selection.   Even if organisms--such as vertebrates--are conscious, genes are not.  And if genes drive behavior, there is no free will.  Few contemporary Darwinists accept the "selfish gene" perspective, and Daniel Dennett has concluded that even that is compatible with free will.

Comment by Joseph P on September 15, 2013 at 10:23am

"I think controversial means, among most people, not limited to the consensus among those with specialist training.  I believe I represent the majority better than those of you who have responded to my comment so far. Do you think I'm wrong?"

Yes, you're wrong.  People with no knowledge of the subject they're criticizing can have all sorts of crazy ideas that have long since been sorted out by the people who study the subject.  You've already demonstrated that you don't understand the basics of the theory.

The majority of uneducated people is not the group you should side with.

Comment by Joseph P on September 15, 2013 at 10:20am

Shaun Johnston:

"To them l think "emergent  properties" would smack of an appeal to magical thinking.  I am myself among that majority."

A majority of scientists who actually study this stuff and have a valid opinion, or a majority of people who make wild assumptions?

Comment by Joseph P on September 15, 2013 at 10:17am

Shaun, one person saying "Nuh uh," does not make a controversy.  The creationists use the same crap.  Show me scientists who study the subject and really know what they're talking about.  Convince them and get them to construct an alternate model, and then you might have your controversy.  Until then, not so much.

 

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