ORIGINS: UNIVERSE, LIFE, HUMANKIND, AND DARWIN

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ORIGINS: UNIVERSE, LIFE, HUMANKIND, AND DARWIN

We debate origins of the Universe, life, Earth, humans, religion, atheism, using common sense, evolution, cosmology, geology, archaeology, and other sciences, to repel biblical creationism and other religious beliefs.

Location: Oxford University, England
Members: 4153
Latest Activity: 28 minutes ago

The portrait is Charles Darwin, age 31, in 1840

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The Bible is not Great by Soren Sagan

Started by Joan Denoo. Last reply by Joan Denoo 28 minutes ago. 16 Replies

Ebola Spreads to U.S.

Started by John Jubinsky. Last reply by John Jubinsky 1 hour ago. 10 Replies

Organic Material Found on Mars

Started by John Jubinsky. Last reply by Patricia on Wednesday. 1 Reply

Pope Says Animals go to Heaven

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Alzheimer's Reversed in Mice

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Pope Says Animals go to Heaven

Started by John Jubinsky. Last reply by Plinius Dec 11. 2 Replies

42,000 Year Old Flute

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540,000 Year Old Artwork

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Very Ancient Sharks Teeth Found

Started by Patricia. Last reply by Joseph P Nov 29. 3 Replies

Ancient Footprints

Started by Patricia. Last reply by Patricia Nov 22. 2 Replies

empathizing–systemizing

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Comment by Ogden Lafaye on December 1, 2009 at 9:38am
Adrian Lea...WoW, well said.

The equilibrium aspect is even harder to get across to sceptics. We began infringing on it in the eqrly 1800's but only recently have we overwhelmed it.

If it were possible to stop all carbon emissions, the earth could recover in decades, in a normal lifetime...this flexibility and ability to recover has been compromised greatly however and the goals the earth struggles with are far below the ideal level humans might enjoy and thrive under. In other words, we have compromised the living conditions of humans for the next 2 or 3 centuries, if, IF we act radically NOW.

My aunt would say of Larry: "Some people just don't see ugly"...laughter

The environment as an entirely natural structure, has an exceptionally vicious attitude towards life. ANY change to this naturalness increases this threat.
Comment by Ogden Lafaye on December 1, 2009 at 9:14am
We have the science Larry, from every field of inquiry, we HAVE laid it on the table...you simply choose to ignore it. You are, in every way, a FunDummie and you are employing their argument style in every respect.
Comment by Ogden Lafaye on December 1, 2009 at 9:11am
Actually, there has never been a time when everyone thought the world was flat. However, there will always be ignorant people who believe the world is flat and that global warming by the people is fallacious.
Comment by Ogden Lafaye on December 1, 2009 at 9:09am
The sentence is out of context but I feel the intent is not responsible to the future...excuse the out of context post, corrections are not possible in these replies for some reason.
Comment by Ogden Lafaye on December 1, 2009 at 9:07am
It won't affect me so why should I care?...hard to misunderstand that Larry.

We all have a duty to the future.
Comment by Ogden Lafaye on December 1, 2009 at 9:05am
"The power needs of the US, RIGHT NOW (without allowing for any increase) would require the building of 8,400 nuclear power plants."

This is obviously an error.
Comment by Ogden Lafaye on November 30, 2009 at 10:22pm
Well Rudy, this garbage is just as evident and equally abundant in the air as on earth. Therefore it is a climate issue. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it disappeared into leftist gaga land.
Comment by Rudy V Kiist on November 30, 2009 at 6:59pm
Again though, I think we need to stress more what Ogden was talking about, (even the "uneducated" can see that) because you don't get a lot of sympathy for GW up here. The difference between -40 warming up to -38 = still damn cold for us northerners LOL. You must understand, in my country the average temp can be a 5 degree Celsius difference depending on the area, but the environment is exactly the same (plant and animal species) therefore they don't see 2 degrees being a big deal. Most people don't look past their own backyard.
Comment by Rudy V Kiist on November 30, 2009 at 4:40pm
I agree 100% with what you wrote Ogden, but to fair to Larry, none of that had anything to do with climate. Pollution and deforestation, yes. Being a farmer, I witness fellow land owners knocking down trees and plowing up native pasture on a yearly basis, but that's another topic. And I've already mention we have a SEVERE problem with pollution.

As for global warming I'm still waiting for more definitive evidence like Larry. It's the old "tree in the forest" dilemma. Yes we witness things like ice caps breaking off in the Acrtic, but the question remains, did it count if it happened back in the 18th or 19th century when no one was there to record it? In other words many argue due to technology and communication we simply know of and are able to find out about easier.

What scares me is over reaction. I hear scientists suggesting dumping MORE crap in the atmosphere or putting up "shades" to block the sun to counteract GW. No ones going to convince me they know exactly what the results are going to be when we start screwing around with the atmosphere on purpose. Too many variables involved.

Don't get me wrong, when it comes to GW, I also believe it's "better to be safe than sorry", but we can also make things worse if we're not careful.
Comment by Ogden Lafaye on November 30, 2009 at 2:13pm
Well Larry, it is a long foregone conclusion and yes, obvious, obvious to those paying attention to the news and understanding what is being discovered and how it relates back to mankind's polluting.

If you are depending on the earth's ability to absorb this punishment and evidences of changes in the past you might look at the rapidity of these changes as compared to natural events past such as "mini ice ages" long term heat rises and falls into cold periods.

The increased respiratory disease rates are rather dramatic as well as the fact that nose hairs are increasing as evidenced by the rather stunning studies of monkeys in the New York Zoo. I know you may be amused but then some of the data I have personally correlated is wayyyyyyy out there and yet, the "standard" available data is an explanation.

I have watched the changes over 70 years. I can remember when there were trees and pastures, creeks and wild animals in areas of America that are now desolate patches. National Geographic dedicated a number of articles to the phenomena of water loss in various areas of the United States, interviewing "old timers" for corroboration. We just don't seem to notice because to a humna, the chages are so gradual. But to historical change, the changes are extremely rapid in the 20th century to now.

I sailed the oceans most of my life and I assure you, you cannot go ANYWHERE on water anymore without seeing trash in the ocean...there are NO stretches of water without a piece of trash within view 24/7...and I have ventured the 7 seas repeatedly. The Persian Gulf, that enormous body of water has NO shoreline vegetation for miles in, there are no birds in the sky or on the water, no other animals, no evidence of sea life other than the occasional fisherman; now almost a thing of the past. Their harbors have huge areas piled with trash that are not navigable.

Ships at sea use sea water to cool their propulsion machinery and the cleaning of filters is a constant task, oft repeated daily. The birds that used to follow our ships all the way across the oceans (albatrosses) are gone. Few sea birds survive whereas as a young man, they were everywhere. The porposises used to ride our bow wave and we could talk to them and they would heed our whistles, rolling on their backs to see us, keeping up with the shup...very very rare these days and the 100's upon 100's of porposises are now a scant few. Whales were everywhere, no more.

The fishing in my native Louisiana was fantastic as a child but not anymore. Believe it or not there were 1/2+ lb. shrimp in the Mississippi River once...gone, not even recorded. I swam in the river as a child, swimming out to anchored timber ships and getting invited on board for coffee and a tour. Now you are covered with grime and oil, suffer sores and rashes...totally polluted and devoid of life in New Orleans. The Gulf of Mexico once harbored a great shrimp and crab population, now virtually non-existent...the bounty was plentiful, so much so that the beaches had feral cats that fished in the shallow waters and we would go out at night and spear flounder (fish) with the aid of a hurricane lamp, picking up soft shell crabs after ascertaining they were soft with our spears, and hand casting nets into the myriad swarms of shrimp and schooling fish that were EVERYWHERE. You could catch large trout at night with a hook and a sliver of white cotton cloth, dragging this in the well lit water off of piers that had advertising signs. No More...alas.

Our 40 acres in the middle of nowhere USA was once covered with fir trees, a creek and animals. Now we haul water from a spring 300 yards away, cut gnarly stunted scrub oak for firewood and celebrate the hoot of an owl or the sudden flight of a bird. The few scrawny coyotes eat our garbage for want of wild fare (they LIKE beans).

In Los Angeles? Want to get away from the smog and pollution? You now have to drive 150+ miles in ANY direction to escape it.

Look around you Larry: We have loaded the atmosphere, the waters and the land with garbage...what more proof do you want?
 

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