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ORIGINS: UNIVERSE, LIFE, HUMANKIND, AND DARWIN

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ORIGINS: UNIVERSE, LIFE, HUMANKIND, AND DARWIN

We debate origins of the Universe, life, Earth, humans, religion, atheism, using common sense, evolution, cosmology, geology, archaeology, and other sciences, to repel biblical creationism and other religious beliefs.

Location: Oxford University, England
Members: 4163
Latest Activity: 20 hours ago

The portrait is Charles Darwin, age 31, in 1840

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Discussion Forum

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Quantum Entanglement.

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Comment by Joseph P on February 12, 2015 at 6:22am

The problem is that Shaun is carrying it from seems supernatural to is supernatural, without justifying that jump.  It's similar to the argument from design, in which they say that something seems designed then treat it as if it is designed.  That's absolutely crappy reasoning.

Hell, Shaun didn't even make an argument that coherent, in his post about Natural Selection being supernatural.  He just asserted it, flat-out.

The big problem I have is that he's presenting his borderline-incoherent ramblings here, in a forum with a bunch of people who aren't qualified to evaluate his claims.  If he actually had something, he would be presenting it to real scientists and trying to get it published in a peer-reviewed journal.

What he's engaging in is equivalent to what the 9/11 Truthers do.  If he has a better model for biological evolution, I'd love to hear it, but he has yet to even hint at such a thing.

Comment by Joan Denoo on February 11, 2015 at 9:06pm

Of course, natural selection is not beyond discussion. To me, germination of a seed or fertilization of an egg is supernatural. How does this happen? What starts the process? How does a peach seed split open and produce an embryo and then a root? Another node forms into two cotyledons that use photosynthesis to provide food for the growth of a stem and leaves, then into a peach tree or a bean vine? 

Any seed that sprouts, any egg that hatches performs a full-of-wonder act. I don't know where, when, or why the beginning of life as we know it begins. That is like asking an ant to explain why thy like to live in a colony. Does it really matter? Maybe there is a prime mover and if so, I am willing to entertain that idea. Maybe there was no superhuman act by anything or anybody. It doesn't matter to me. 

What does matter to me is whether I can live in peace, harmony and joy in my home. Others may want to know the answers to these questions and let them go after them. 

You may be on to something, Shaun, and if so, I hope you take it to a place more appropriate for closer examination and evaluation. If it turns out you opened a whole new way of explaining natural selection and if so, I will celebrate with you. Until then, I really don't care. I am in no situation to care because I know diddly squat what you write about. 

Comment by Joseph P on February 10, 2015 at 12:29pm

And it's published in which scientific journal, after several qualified biologists have examined the proposal for flaws?

Comment by Shaun Johnston on February 10, 2015 at 10:11am

I believe I have found a critical flaw in Ronald Fisher's Genetical Theory of Natural Selection, on which the modern synthesis based.See article.

Comment by Joseph P on January 28, 2015 at 3:16pm

Why should your "theory" not also be subject to criticism?

And hell, for that matter, tell us what your hypothesis is.  What mechanism have you discovered, which you think is absent from the current synthesis of the theory of natural selection?  I've never seen you express an inkling of an alternative model, which you're attempting to support as a replacement to natural selection.

And no, I'm not going to wade through your incoherent blog to try to find where you've mentioned it, if you've talked about it in there.  If you can't express it here, in simple, concise language, then you're right, I'm not interested in hearing what you have to say.  All I've ever seen from you is the sort of inane attacks that I would expect from a creationist conspiracy-nut (natural selection requires the supernatural; natural selection leads to eugenics), with no alternative even hinted at.

Comment by Christopher Lowe on January 28, 2015 at 12:10pm

@ Shaun Johnston Of course Darwinian theory of evolution should be criticized. Bring it on! But be specific. A vast army of biologists have amassed and reviewed data on the subject for a century and a half. You need a level of expertise to even have a debate with these scientists. 

What if you are wrong? Even misguided? I see you pissing and moaning on your blog how you've been attacked?

Why should your "theory" not also be subject to criticism? Show some comprehension of the subject and show some maturity.

Comment by Joseph P on January 28, 2015 at 11:32am

Or come up with something to say that is worth listening to.  I just took a glance at your latest blog post, and it's borderline incoherent.  I can't even figure out what you're getting at with your mountain metaphor, and I'd love to know why you have a bug up your ass about eugenics.

Comment by Shaun Johnston on January 28, 2015 at 11:27am

OK, I get it, piss off. OK.

Comment by Idaho Spud on January 28, 2015 at 11:17am

I'm not wasting my time reading anything you have written until you get Dawkins, and/or other respected evolutionary scientists to agree with you.

Comment by Joseph P on January 28, 2015 at 11:09am

I'm waiting for someone with an actual lab, running actual experiments, to turn up something, rather than you making absurd claims.  When you keep coming at us with deliberately provocative claims about natural selection being supernatural, we're just going to think you're an asshole.

This is science, not theology.  Where's your data?  Where are the peer-reviewed studies that support your wild assertions?  After your last ridiculous post, I can't even be bothered to check the latest stuff you've written, unless you're pointing us to something written by someone more credible than you.

The model of natural selection is criticized and modified all the time, when real scientists discover some detail turned up in their experiments.  When you have something similar to contribute, rather than wild speculation, I might care about what you have to say.

 

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