ORIGINS: UNIVERSE, LIFE, HUMANKIND, AND DARWIN

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ORIGINS: UNIVERSE, LIFE, HUMANKIND, AND DARWIN

We debate origins of the Universe, life, Earth, humans, religion, atheism, using common sense, evolution, cosmology, geology, archaeology, and other sciences, to repel biblical creationism and other religious beliefs.

Location: Oxford University, England
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The portrait is Charles Darwin, age 31, in 1840

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Comment by Joseph P on April 8, 2012 at 6:56pm

What does that have to do with the discussion thread or Origins in general?

 

I don't believe you can turn economics into a hard science, no matter how much you try.  You can't test it in a lab.  You can't run a control group.  You can't do repeatable experiments with controlled variables.  It's not a hard science, and it can't be.

Comment by Joseph P on April 8, 2012 at 6:48pm

I may have missed something here. What was the original discussion topic? It seems some people are trying assert their dominance as best Hitler biographer. Fascinating, but is anything productive going to come out of this argument, or is it just a contest to see which primate gets to be top monkey?

It began with this:

 

Comment by chris tidman 9 hours ago
So if we vote for Darwinism we support the logic for a hierarchy of life forms, which is used to support the cast system, euthanasia of lesser beings, and differences in the treatment of different races. Pretty well what we have at the moment.
Creationists on the other hand recognize the equality of all humans.
I believe in both and that we are not alone in the universe. When you believe that, I think that you leave the door open for free thought.

... about 6 pages back in the comments.  It's on the top of page 7, as I type this.

It only switched off to Hitler after Chris won his Godwin Award, a few posts later:

 

Joseph.  Hitler was a Christian but also a Darwinist (call it evolutionist if you like) which is where he got his weird ideas about belonging to a super race and trying to move the process along by eliminating what he felt were the inferior.

Comment by Joseph P on April 8, 2012 at 6:40pm

... or more to the point, connect that to the thing I said to which you're responding.

Comment by Wyatt on April 8, 2012 at 6:38pm
I may have missed something here. What was the original discussion topic? It seems some people are trying assert their dominance as best Hitler biographer. Fascinating, but is anything productive going to come out of this argument, or is it just a contest to see which primate gets to be top monkey?
Comment by Joseph P on April 8, 2012 at 6:38pm

@ Joseph P : Hitler got his idea of an Aryan Super race from Nietzsche, not Darwin.

Not following you.  How is that a comment upon anything I've said?  Explain further, please.

Comment by Joseph P on April 8, 2012 at 6:36pm

" He was their boy, not ours."
What is this 'theirs' and 'ours' ? He was a stupid human like the rest of us, influenced by an ego and narcissistic tendencies and having a communicable disease that affected his brain. He probably got picked on when he was a child by a few Jewish schoolmates and felt entitled to get even. You can't believe everything you read.

In this case, it refers to theism/Creationism, as opposed to atheism/acceptance-of-Evolution.  Hitler was firmly in the first camp, on both subjects.

 

"It's not what you say. It's what you do."
25 years ago I wrote a little book explaining why the banking system was not sustainable and why the rich get richer and the poorer. In that year the Nobel Prize committee that had granted the economics prize since it had been established was disbanded and replaced with a new committee with a sociologist on the team. The Bank of Canada Governor John Crow resigned and the BofC stopped announcing the interest rate every week. They now claim to 'just follow the market'. Then I wrote the first training program for environmentalists. Three years ago I started the North America Party and since then I have been developing the perimeter security for North America. What have you done Joseph?

And which part of that has the first thing to do with Evolution or the study of Hitler's philosophical beliefs?

... or science, for that matter?  Economics is nothing approaching a hard science.

 

Oh vegetarians. They don't eat meat. It affects the brain and makes the eyes go funny.

[citation needed]

Uh huh.

Comment by Meddlesome on April 8, 2012 at 6:36pm

@ Joseph P : Hitler got his idea of an Aryan Super race from Nietzsche, not Darwin.

Comment by Joseph P on April 8, 2012 at 6:23pm

To comment on the discussion that many others were having, about whether Hitler was really a Catholic ...

 

The impression I've gotten is that he was a true Catholic, just like many modern Christians are Christians.  I know a lot of fuzzy Christians who get into astrology, psychics, Ouija boards, and other random, spiritual crap.

I think Hitler did a lot of the same, with eastern spirituality (the adoption of the swastika, among other things) of various sorts, as well as Nordic paganism.  He dabbled, but that doesn't necessarily make him less of a Christian.  It just doesn't make him a very good Christian, as many aren't.

Comment by Joseph P on April 8, 2012 at 6:08pm

Religion is a people control invention so the few can control the many.  Worked very well for ancient Egyptians, Aztecs, Romans adopted Catholicism after not having much luck crucifying and threatening them. Then we have the King James Bible- so the common people could understand it and dozens of little break away sects that wanted their own communion.  Whatever the common beliefs were, weren't that common.  They haven't apparently discovered the truth.

That's a bit of a simplistic view.  Religion was seized as a useful tool to control the masses, yes, but it wasn't created as such.  Religions evolved from early elementalism and various forms of spirit worship.  There's a little Creation myth/just-so story thrown in.

 

It's an unholy mess (pun intended) that's difficult to trace back to its origins.  Early religions survived and evolved into the modern religions because they provided for some emotional need that human society had.  Christianity survived as long as it has because it gave the oppressed classes hope.  Just because the royal classes used it for their ends doesn't mean that they created it.

Comment by Joseph P on April 8, 2012 at 5:57pm

I stand corrected. Just not sure about what.

 

Has anyone figured out what we are evolving into and what kind of common sense we should apply to meet the demands of our immediate future that we have created for ourselves?

That's the thing.  Evolution doesn't have a goal in mind.  It's not a thing.  It's just an explanation for things that happen in the universe, like most scientific discoveries.

It's not really something that you can prepare for.  Things just change over time, as environmental conditions change.  For that matter, humans can have a great effect on our environment, which can effect the path of our own evolution.

Either way, though, it happens over huge numbers of generations ... hundreds or thousands, barring catastrophic environmental changes.  It's not something that we need to worry about, on an individual basis.

 

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