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ORIGINS: UNIVERSE, LIFE, HUMANKIND, AND DARWIN

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ORIGINS: UNIVERSE, LIFE, HUMANKIND, AND DARWIN

We debate origins of the Universe, life, Earth, humans, religion, atheism, using common sense, evolution, cosmology, geology, archaeology, and other sciences, to repel biblical creationism and other religious beliefs.

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The portrait is Charles Darwin, age 31, in 1840

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Comment by AtheistTech on September 26, 2011 at 10:42pm

@Craigart14

 

The racial component is not only in the South, it is here in the Detroit area as well and quite possibly in the whole of the US in varying degrees.  It is a big problem. Why educate the poor because the poor is mainly made up of blacks, latinos, and white trash? If there is anything to hate it is bigotry.

You say that you think “that theists often are against many freedoms”. I would ask the question, why are theists against many freedoms? Can you even guess? I will venture a guess. If you are the majority and you want to be the privileged class, just hate the under-privileged class and keep them down. That will ensure your power over them. How do you fight the opinion that the theists spread about themselves to their flock: We are God’s chosen people and we can do no wrong with God on our side, so let me tell you what God wants.

Science keeps showing how all humans are the same. The skin color is only a response to environmental conditions a people endured for eons causing their skin to change color.

You asked “What does it mean to live a Christ-like life?” I put to you that it means whatever your pastor says it means. Ambiguity is a tool that religion has perfected its use of. What is Love? Hate? Evil? Good? Bad? Like?  They are all ambiguous and can be explained to mean anything the theist wants it to mean. You hinted on this idea when you asked: “…who gets to define evil?”

Comment by Craigart14 on September 26, 2011 at 8:12pm

@trekjunky

 

It's been my experience that theists work against public education while funding religious schools.  Here in the South, there is also a racial component, given that the proliferation of private schools occurred as a response to forced integration.  Separating the races used to be a major issue for evangelicals, but since Brown v. Board of Education--or actually, a few years after it--segregation wasn't flying very well, so they picked up abortion as a banner issue.

 

I think, too, that theists often are against many freedoms.  The Christian Right, now allied with the GOP and big business, argues that big, progressive government restricts our freedoms, and in a way, it does.  Corporations shouldn't be free to exploit workers or provide unsafe work environments or dumb toxic waste into the water because these actions cause actual harm to other people and to mutually held assets, such as the air we breathe and the water we drink.  The Right, while it champions freedom for the wealthy to destroy our rights and our environment in pursuit of short-term profit, would like to restrict freedoms that do not hurt other people or damage mutually held assets, such as sex, drugs, entertainment, gay rights--you name it--because "sin" is another word for "victimless crime."  Big progressive government funds public education, highway systems, public parks, health care, wilderness areas, public transportation, etc.  Did the interstate highway system make us more free?  Yes.  Do the subway systems in New York, Boston, and Atlanta make people more free?  Yes.  Would government managed health care make us more free?  Yes.  I once lived apart from my family for three years because my daughter's heart condition made it impossible to change insurance companies, and my new job was 200 miles from home.  Parks and wilderness areas make it possible for ordinary folk to enjoy public land, whereas a hundred years ago only the rich could see Yellowstone or the Adirondacks.

 

What does it mean to live a Christ-like life?  To castigate gays, though Jesus never even mentioned them?  To reject government assistance to the poor?  To root out illegal immigrants?  To keep women from receiving quality health care?  To build enormous mega-churches with ATMs in the lobby?  (Jesus would probably have a hard time kicking an ATM out of the temple.  Those suckers are bolted down.)

 

As for driving out evil, who gets to define evil?  Muslims who won't eat pork, or Hindus who won't eat beef?  Should all of our lives be governed by clerics' conjectures about divinity, conjectures they claim are based on "sacred" texts written by semi-literate goatherds, nomads, and camel drivers?  The books that tells us that the other guy is an infidel, which makes him fair game?  The books that tell us the soul is immortal, so it's ok to kill the body?  (That's the basic point of the Baghavad Gita.)  Ancient superstition is no foundation for a fair and just society.

Comment by Hania Uscka-Wehlou on September 26, 2011 at 12:36pm

While I can't prove it, I would suggest that the reason for this is that they actually approve of any practise that can even remotely be considered 'catholic' while, in their silence, distancing themselves from the barbarism of much of it.

 

Sounds possible.

Comment by Marc Draco on September 26, 2011 at 10:21am
News media can be controlled by politicians - they just choose not to (in the US this is under Free Speech, I expect).

However, IF politicians were elected on their actual abilities - not their ability to woo a crowd, they could show people what load of crap the news media spout. Faux New's days could be numbered with the NoW debacle which has now spread to the US.

However, the fines are pitiful. Better to fine a corporation a percentage of its net, post tax earnings than some "large" amount, because a company the size of News Corp can absorb losses of a few million and barely flinch - then it's business as usual.
Comment by Diana Bett on September 26, 2011 at 10:16am
Don't forget News as a business-- the news media makes more money from sensationalism than they ever could from being reasonable.
Comment by Marc Draco on September 26, 2011 at 10:12am
Politics - that's the problem. Without politics that are stuck in the dark ages before telephony, never mind Internet, the religious could never get the coverage they do.
Comment by Diana Bett on September 26, 2011 at 9:55am
Oh, I take no offense. This country is fucked in the collective head in many ways.
Comment by Hania Uscka-Wehlou on September 26, 2011 at 8:19am

Evil, yes; fundie, no.

I like it very much :-)

Comment by Joseph P on September 26, 2011 at 8:16am
I think it mostly has to do with fundamentalism.  The Catholic church isn't even vaguely fundamentalist.  Evil, yes; fundie, no.  They accept huge swaths of the Bible as a nice story that tells you how you're supposed to act.  America is one of the few first-world countries with such a large percentage of religious denominations that push literal, anti-scientific ideas.
Comment by Diana Bett on September 26, 2011 at 7:53am
Could still add it as a discussion topic somewhere, but yeah, you've got people talking about it. :P
 

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