ORIGIN OF ATHEIST PRIDE

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jeff on December 24, 2008 at 12:17am

Proudly spoken.

I was thinking yesterday about doing a video on Youtube addressing the intellectual high ground in debates about the existence of God and to suggest that atheists focus their energy on arguments about the origin or morality instead.

But brow beating Christians is the opiate of atheists on Youtube (it seems). I take a little taste myself sometimes so don't think I'm gettin preachy here. Pwnage feeds our pride. We deserve to feel proud I think. After feeling doubt and shame at the hands of the ovewhelming religious majority, we deserve to do it their expense. But it's a shortlived thrill and I think it comes at a price. In the end, they learn nothing and can't believe the audacity of us godless morons to question the authority of their righteous one. No ground is gained and we are further divided. Again, I know, it's hard to resist.

I think a different approach is humility. I actually was able to convince one Christian to stop calling atheists fools using this approach. It took a few rounds of being insulted and talked down to, but I was able to open his head a little by treating him with the utmost dignity and remembering to point out the strengths of his arguments and selectively rebuking (respectfully) is weaker ones. We continue to debate, respectfully.

In closing, I am excited to see a movement towards acknowledging the merits of our conclusion. I'm glad to see Dawkins and others doing so much to rally our spirits and move us towards taking action in a civil sense. But let's not get out of one box (of thinking) just to land in another. Progress above all else.

peace

Jeff

Permalink Reply by david howze on March 28, 2009 at 9:52pm

I agree! I have found that if i question their belief with interest and respect, they are less likely to shut you out, and usually can't answer the question you ask causing them to see your side a bit. kind of like planting a seed if you will. Not being able to explain your belief kind of leaves you to wonder if you are indeed right after all!

Permalink Reply by Allen Uribes on May 6, 2009 at 6:21pm

"I think a different approach is humility." +1

Permalink Reply by Geraldo Cienmarcos on September 1, 2010 at 1:10am

Check out the search field on YouTube.com

There is already PLENTY on atheism and arguments against God.
And many are rather good.

But I don't think YouTube needs another video on unbelief.

Gary

Permalink Reply by D. E. Hall on December 24, 2008 at 1:54am

I started writing a very long reply to this, however, upon further thought, I have found it uncalled for.

I agree that people should be open about their atheism, I agree that apologism is backwards, and lastly I agree that childhood indoctrination is irrevocably twisted and wrong.

My only grievance with this excellent post, is a warning: Do not mistake the need to be open with your atheism and to be confident with your atheism with being aggressive and absolute when confronting a religious person. If you attack someone with all the zealotry and dogma of a religion, do not be surprised if you are treated as an invader: by having the religious individual throw up a wall, and return fire. Progress is not made on the battlefield, it is done in the embassies (to take this metaphor even further) and you must appeal to their desire for reason and logic (even if they have hidden it in a dark part of their mind). Also remember: The open atheist represents the whole group in the eyes of the religious, if you are calm, level-headed, and logical it will cast a favorable light upon the stance of atheism.

Permalink Reply by Dr. Terence Meaden on December 24, 2008 at 3:36am

Jeff and DEH have raised good points.
I have learnt that it is usually useless debating with the wholly indoctrinated.
Our first issue should be with the doubters--those who are uncertain, and wondering how to choose between dogmatic religion and the temptations of the world of free thought.
So I am suggesting that we atheists display more pride (although not arrogance).
We have much to be proud about--because we are right.

Permalink Reply by Mark Stanbrook on April 4, 2009 at 10:56pm

I actually have to disagree here Terry. The uncertain and the agnostic are far less likely to harm their children through indoctrination than the believers are. The uncertain and the agnostic are far more likely to become atheists through the vast volumes of material out there. After all if you're not certain then you MUST be searching and the answers are there. Not to say that all agnostics will find them and effort should certainly be applied there. But if someone already has doubts then it SHOULD be trivial to convince them of the truth.

The Theists on the other hand are actively harming their children and their neighbours and deserve our attention far more. I think one child saved from Theism is worth 5 children moved from uncertainty, if you will pardon my scientific approximation.

Perhaps you mean in a political sense we can do more to sway things to our side with limited resources by concentrating on the uncertain but I think that that way lies an internal fallacy. Whilst politics and policy will ultimately reap greater rewards I think we have a duty to our knowledge to hold the high ground and attack the roots of what we oppose and not just try to play some kind of weird 'British Bulldogs' with belief.

--
Mark

Permalink Reply by Gecko, Seth...brother of Richie! on May 19, 2009 at 12:14am

I think I see where yo are coming from Mark however thr agnostic may teach the child"I dont know, no one really knows" this allows the child to explore faith from a false assumption that they are seeking truth. I dont believe in evolution I know evolution is occurring based on overwhelming evidence. I dont believe this is a website i know this is a website. Children not taught the facts will tend toward the belief fallacy that we hear all the time " Do you believe in evolution?" The answer must be taught to them NO belief requires faith I have evidence I dont require faith. I no Darwinian evolution is happening.

Permalink Reply by david perry on December 12, 2010 at 1:20pm

You got lucky considering you were involved with the catholics. I had it even easier being raised Lutheran(40 yrs ago, not the "New" variety). I went to the weekly classes until I was 13, the thing is, everyone knew I was an atheist, and presumably were hoping I'd change my mind.
I think what you say about "maturity of the mind" makes more sense than calling it intelligence, which is what so many atheist writers attribute it to. And I also think it is in part the result of learning to read at an early age, and learning to enjoy reading aggressively, i.e.- whatever you can get your hands on.
All of which leads to a discussion about the state of education, unfortunately these days that discussion mostly centers on how many teachers they can fire to break the union.

Permalink Reply by Gerald Scott on November 27, 2009 at 10:00pm

I've been an atheist since I was a teenager, about 50 years ago. I remember telling my father I didn't believe in god. I got a licking. For years, I hid my beliefs from everyone except my wife. She seemed to understand. Every once and awhile I would tell someone I was an atheist. Guess what? The beatings kept coming. So, as many atheist did, I hid in the closet. About five years ago, I met some people. They asked me what my religion was. I told them I was an atheist. They thought I was a christian. I guess I did a good job. So, now I don't hide. I'm an atheist. I have no choice. No more beatdowns. I would have liked to take a stand years ago. I didn't need the aggravation.

Permalink Reply by Dr. Terence Meaden on November 28, 2009 at 4:17am

It is easier to respond strongly when you are older. Parents of unprejudiced atheist children rarely understand, and yet atheism in the natural condition of the known universe into we are all born.

Religion is a taught fiction, which is why there are so many religions and so many gods.

When I am now asked the driving question by a believer, I can answer firmly that natural rationality and commonsense points to religion as being nothing but a fraud, as are all the gods which religion embraces.

Permalink Reply by Danielle Gardner on December 1, 2009 at 6:44pm

It is so refreshing to be among such intelligence! You have made my day! It is nice to find people who I agree with. Thank you!

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