Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Patricia on September 14, 2010 at 11:56pm

Thanks for this info Kelly M....will add this to my amazon wish list. I have a few books already that I have trouble understanding so get a bit skittish with some authors. Pat

Permalink Reply by Kelly M on September 15, 2010 at 6:07am

Hi Patricia,
This book is an easy read! It's written to be understood by the masses. (At least those who aren't brainwashed into thinking the only answer is a invisible man in the sky.) That is what the pleasant surprise is here! No worries!

Permalink Reply by John Jubinsky on September 15, 2010 at 6:40am

I'm glad you started this discussion. I was thinking about doing it myself.

I got the book but I am spread so thinly right now that I won't be able to start reading it for a couple of weeks. Nonetheless, I am certainly looking forward to commenting on it and reading the comments of others.

Permalink Reply by Kelly M on September 15, 2010 at 3:33pm

I am going to let my son read this book after I am done, and he is only 12. I think it breaks the evolution of quantum physics and mechanics into terms that are very understandable. It explains Einstein's theory of special relativity in a really neat way that helps you immediately understand what it states. I'm really hoping that the Discovery Chanel or the Science Chanel will put together a program that goes through what this book says. I think that this book is geared more toward the masses than for hard core science geeks...(like some of us.)
I feel like this is Hawking's attempt to be as clear as he possibly can to help us understand things with different eyes. Just my thought. I'll let you know when I'm done. I'm almost done with Chapter 5 of 8.

Permalink Reply by Patricia on September 15, 2010 at 4:36pm

Hey Kelly M,
Don't know about your area, but we've been getting some reality good Darwin/evolution/pre-history type programs on here in Canada. PBS has also had some excellent programming as well. BRING 'EM ON, I say!!!!

Permalink Reply by Kelvin Hilerio on September 16, 2010 at 3:00pm

I certainly hope pbs works on a documentary about the ideas presented in the book, i absolutely enjoy there documentaries, i myself bought the book but have found that i am also stretched thin when it comes to books. I still haven't started reading my copy of "The Greatest Show On Earth" by richard Dawkins, this hasn't stopped me from reaching chapter 4 as of now of grand design. Although i enjoy reading a challenging book i do appreciate the clarity that is used in "The Grand Design" i definately think it was written with a larger audience in mind, as opposed to geeky people like me. So far so good though i really enjoy the book and i hope it has an enlightening ending.

Permalink Reply by John Jubinsky on September 16, 2010 at 3:21pm

I think that Hawking takes an extremely debatable position in chapter two, he says we don't really have free will.

Per p#32, last sentence of 1st paragraph:

It is hard to imagine how free will can operate if our behavior is determined by physical law, so it seems that we are no more than biological machines and that free will is just an illusion.

The next time you hear that a priest raped a six year old boy just remember this and realize that the priest was in no way responsible (please see the sarcasm here).

Hawking shoots himself in the foot regarding this in the chapter. That is, on p#22, beginning of second paragraph, he complains that the speculations of the ancient Greeks would not amount to modern science for lack of experimental verification - but about free will, p#32, beginning of second paragraph, he says:

While conceding that human behavior is indeed determined by the laws of nature, it is also reasonable to conclude that the outcome is determined in such a complicated way and with so many variables as to make it impossible in practice to predict.

Where is the experimental verification for his position?

Permalink Reply by Kelvin Hilerio on September 16, 2010 at 3:30pm

Perhaps i will find an answer to john's question at the end of the book, perhaps.

Permalink Reply by Kelly M on September 16, 2010 at 4:00pm

I just finished the book today. I think that the question of free will, and how it effects our universe gets some clarity in the end. I don't think he was saying we don't have free will, rather I think he was playing devil's advocate and pointing out some things that might come into question regarding multiple realities and the multiverse. What's visible to us, and what's not, and theories on why and how this might be.
I was wondering where all of this was going until it gets sewn up in the final chapter. What I did have to do, was to quit trying to grasp every detail of the experiments, laws and theories he was presenting, and just try to grasp their point. Then, wondering how it was all going to be put together, I got what he was trying to say in the final chapter. NOW, that being said, it's time for me to go back, and individually research each of the experiments, laws and theories in detail, so I know exactly why each of these pieces fit into the giant puzzle, other than why they make up the picture he is painting. I do know that I didn't end up feeling like I had no free will, but that free will and our choice can be a variable that may or may not have any effect on the outcome.
I know one thing, I'm going to be reading that last chapter again so I can dissect it better!

Permalink Reply by Kevin Benbow on October 10, 2010 at 9:08pm

I guess my question is whether Hawking is referring to specific acts or patterns of behavior in humans as a species.

My observation as a counselor has been that humans are certainly capable of behavioral change, but tend to revert to previously learned, and at times maladaptive behaviors (vis a vis, depression, substance abuse, sexual infidelity, etc.).

The act of learning and change seem to be ingrained into us as a species, making our social and cultural evolution (for better or worse) predetermined by our biological predisposition and environment.

I'm just thinking aloud, and am not married to a particular position on the subject.

Permalink Reply by John Jubinsky on October 11, 2010 at 5:26am

I think we have to be careful not to stereotype individuals nor classes of them.

Permalink Reply by Greg Smith on September 19, 2010 at 11:12pm

I think he actually was saying that we don't have free will. If any of you have read "Beyond Freedom and Dignity" by B.F. Skinner, he pretty much explains how every action is just a reaction to a cause. I haven't actually read Hawkings new book, but I'm sure that he genuinely meant that we don't have free will. It has nothing to do with morality, it has to do with mechanics. I won't be able to carry on much of a debate because I have much to study for school, but I will try and follow this thread some.

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