Yeah, I've never seen anything to indicate that Martin is gay. I think Don is gay ... and then of course there's Jen who's completely open and talks about it regularly ... not that that does you any good ... well, and she's married, anyway.
So, the Quakers also do the whole "God is light," thing?
Well they have this very distended sense of what god is. I was forever being told whatever I thought was like it wasn't it was more like if you had inspiration in your life - that was god. If you perceived beuaty - that was god. If you acted kindly or were the recipient of a kind act - that was god, and the reason for kindness beauty, meaning was the 'divine light' that god had placed within everything.
Now if that makes one lick of sense to you have have more smarts than I do!
No, not more smarts, just more psychotropic substances in my system. That sounds all new agey and useless to me ...
But it also pisses me off. That's the sort of concept of God that is great for keeping people sucked in. It keeps them eternally thankful for everything good in their lives, because anything good they accomplish is God's work.
It makes people incapable of accepting credit for their own accomplishments, and I can see it being more effective than the threat of hell. The threat isn't even in the next world. The threat is the loss of all the things God has done for them in this world.
Well it's old-age-new-age, Quakers was founded in 1647.
In a strange way I think it's possibly one of the least offensive sects in Christendom, and yet you are hitting on exactly what I object too as well. It's all still nonsense that impoverishes us through faith.
Yeah, I know the Quakers are old. The oatmeal has been around for a long time.
They're definitely not fundamentalist, but they're still supporting something that stifles inquiry ... not like the Catholic church did in the middle ages, but just by making people think they have the answers.
I like to think that rational, reasoned responses will make a difference to some believers, since I was (at least nominally) a believer. Pascal's wager makes sense if you're raised in that environment and you've never heard anyone point out why it's kind of silly.
The thing that is worrisome about this person is the fear of hell is so ingrained emotionally that I don't know if reason can fight that battle. I got a little bored reading through all of it, and skimmed it down to the bottom where she really gives herself away. If reality has to go up against "agony for eternity" then there is going to be a lot of resistance, and all the more credit to her, as you say, for being willing and not hostile. People who are motivated by fear, though, really scare me.
"Pascal's wager makes sense if you're raised in that environment and you've never heard anyone point out why it's kind of silly."
Except she has had it's flaw(s) pointed out to her - and she said she continued to use it. That's why having pitched a few soft-balls I went pretty hard on that one by accusing her of being outright dishonest.
"the fear of hell is so ingrained emotionally that I don't know if reason can fight that battle"
No I suspect not, I'm not at all likely to change her mind, but such altruism while admirable isn't really my objective this time.
"I got a little bored reading through all of it"
Aww shame, you missed some good stuff. ;) Personally blame the internet for giving people short attention spans! :^P
I find it rather comical that she's believes in a spiritural war, Satan, the bible correlates with the fall of the world. I'm dying to see if she's into the rapture or prophecy or both.
Either way should be fun. But then I am a masochist.
Click the 'what is this?' link in the middle.