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Contentious issues in the atheist community

I just got 200 comments and counting on my local atheist group when I posted this:

"On a matter of self reflection as a group I would like to discuss the idea of us calling anyone inferior or superior based on religion, race, gender, sexual orientation - as there all share the same medal of racism.

I realise that XXX may see this as the promotion of political correctness. I don't support political correctness as a means to an end. I do support freedom of speech. And I like the idea that we are free here to discuss opening about our attitudes.

What concerns me is that in the atheist community (on the many forums and you tubes that I've seen) I have observed what looked to me like, arrogance, prejudice, superiority and dismissive attitudes.

I realise that we all have our own nature - but I do support the idea that we can all try to act on science and reason - and not perpetrate racism or other harmful attitudes based on false beliefs about superiority. And think it important that we become more self aware of these issues and come up with effective methods that deal with it.

Preferably compassionate - based on the principles of Naturalism, rather than regressive aggression against it."

Is this a very contentious issue?

6 members like this

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Alice on January 24, 2012 at 3:38pm

Joan - I totally agree - and I think this is why I notice the arrogance and prejudice - because when I cop a ship load of critical thinking attacking my ideas, I take the hit and examine them, with reference to logic and reason - any grandiose ideas I had about myself being smart or knowing - have been totally trounced here. And I am very grateful for the trouncing, as it has allowed me to develop my ideas to be robust, and to be less attached to false ideas, and more objective in my thinking - to let go of attachments to false realities and delusion.

Thank you to all you free thinking atheist who have helped me to see the light of science, reason and rational thinking. I am indebted.

Joan - sounds to me like you need a community - you need a power base - stuff this fighting on the back foot - you've got needs and they are valid and you need community support for these demands for equal and fair rights. Equal and fair rights are needs - not to be ignored over greed for power and money. Have total confidence in your rights and your position - and have compassion for those who are unable to share your insight and perception for what is just.

Permalink Reply by Rob van Senten on January 25, 2012 at 7:16am

"I guess I have been wrong on so many things in my life, it is normal to change ... given evidence that I need to."

That's why it's sometimes useful to be civil in discussions, almost everybody can change their mind if presented with sufficient evidence but it's difficult if people hurl insults at you.

Oh, and welcome to the club for people that are wrong a lot or most of the time, we currently have about 7 billion members ;)

Permalink Reply by Madhukar Kulkarni on January 25, 2012 at 7:59am

That's why it's sometimes useful to be civil in discussions, almost everybody can change their mind if presented with sufficient evidence but it's difficult if people hurl insults at you.

These sentences should be shown on every page of discussion on AN.

Permalink Reply by Rob van Senten on January 25, 2012 at 11:42am

There are some people that you cannot have a civil discussion with because they have evidence of a truth that only they can see. Sometimes one person's truth is so confronting (offensive) to another that insult is taken even if it was not intended.

So although you can strive to engage in civil discussions, sometimes people need to take off their gloves and get ready to rumble because it is important to share one's truth and to put it up for criticism.

I don't want to shy away from a heated argument, especially if it's something close to my heart, but I often look back and think that it would have still been better if I kept it more civil instead of getting in people's faces. Ah well, we live and learn, right?

Permalink Reply by Alice on January 25, 2012 at 7:14pm

Rob - I think it's about intention - is someones intention to harm me? Have they misunderstood my intention as wanting to harm them?

If we are clear on our intentions to promote well-being for all - I don't see how evidence or opinion can be offensive - unless it's personal towards the person, rather than the belief/idea/ideology.

Permalink Reply by Rob van Senten on January 25, 2012 at 7:26pm

Sure intention is important, but sometimes stupidity takes hold of people and they are simply not even aware of the harm that they are doing to others. I try to get a feel of people's intentions because it does influence me in deciding how to act upon it.

Well, if you believe that no person is allowed to remove a body part of a person without the ability to consent you in effect believe that circumcision is a violation of the rights of the individual. People that oppose that view might find this offensive for instance, and perhaps even feel personally attacked, I wouldn't be surprised.

Permalink Reply by Alice on January 25, 2012 at 10:38pm

I think that surgery that improves well-being is fair, without informed consent with children. Such as for congenital birth defects.

Permalink Reply by Rob van Senten on January 26, 2012 at 2:46am

Oh yeah, definitely, medical necessity is just that, a necessity. Aesthetic corrective surgery would not qualify in my book, especially if the procedure is quite intrusive and/or irreversible.

Permalink Reply by Alice on January 26, 2012 at 4:54am

I personally don't support cutting the skin off the penis of a baby - unless there is some medical reason to do so. I have 3 boys, and they are all in tact.

Permalink Reply by Joan Denoo on January 25, 2012 at 5:16pm

Rob, I think that number is about right!

Permalink Reply by Alice on January 25, 2012 at 5:25pm

Rob - LOL - so true...

Permalink Reply by Rudy V Kiist on January 24, 2012 at 9:55am

Your comment applies to pretty much every group...not just religious or atheism. Especially your 3rd sentence. Funny thing is, if you agree with it hard enough, you won't see the "arrogance..." etc. Let's pick out dog groups, for instance. People into breeding purebreeds compared to ones into the rescue dogs area are like that and those who see both sides, would see them as you describe. I'm even guessing some outside of the "Naturalism group" may view that group in the same light you view many in the atheist community. It's called "being human". We all have opinions. Just to varying degrees on certain issues.