"Hello, I just joined this. Just saying Hi!"
 |
Christopher Hitchens - image and impact
How can we as atheists present our view as worthy and valuable in public debates and forums?
I've been watching a few You Tubes of debates between Christopher Hitchens and others of mainly religious persuasion.
Hitchens comes across as being negative.
I totally agree with Hitchens but I'm trying to work out what it is that causes him to seem this way.
I totally understand his disinterest, boredom and frustration at debating with these people - but clearly he believes that doing so is useful.
The religious people come across as confident, self assured and definite in their arguments and statements.
I think that it's because Hitchens is taking a position against their arguments - to counter their arguments. I suppose this is a natural position when self-identifying as an atheist and put into a debate with a theist. But it would be nice to up our profile a bit - come across as strong in ourselves with the same confident, self assured and definite approach that they have with their world views.
I think we need a "culture" to promote - a culture of reason, science and pragmatism. A way of approaching life and life's challenges and dilemmas - one that can be talked about in a positive way - it doesn't need to include personal opinions, but it can include the way that we reach those private opinions - such as in a reasonable way that is based in scientific method for good moral values.
I notice also that they keep getting into a preaching sort of track where they start going on about Jesus or such like and really it would be the equivalent as Hitchens using fairy stories to illustrate his point. Perhaps he should. Perhaps people might relate better to him if he did use fairy stories to illustrate his points. Then he might come across as confident as they do.
I think that another important point is that religion has changed according to society. Things have changed as time has passed. But I suppose on things like human rights are lacking - such as gay marriage - and these are the points that we need to keep arguing with our "culture" of reason, rational and science based, morally good values.
I've been watching a few You Tubes of debates between Christopher Hitchens and others of mainly religious persuasion.
Hitchens comes across as being negative.
I totally agree with Hitchens but I'm trying to work out what it is that causes him to seem this way.
I totally understand his disinterest, boredom and frustration at debating with these people - but clearly he believes that doing so is useful.
The religious people come across as confident, self assured and definite in their arguments and statements.
I think that it's because Hitchens is taking a position against their arguments - to counter their arguments. I suppose this is a natural position when self-identifying as an atheist and put into a debate with a theist. But it would be nice to up our profile a bit - come across as strong in ourselves with the same confident, self assured and definite approach that they have with their world views.
I think we need a "culture" to promote - a culture of reason, science and pragmatism. A way of approaching life and life's challenges and dilemmas - one that can be talked about in a positive way - it doesn't need to include personal opinions, but it can include the way that we reach those private opinions - such as in a reasonable way that is based in scientific method for good moral values.
I notice also that they keep getting into a preaching sort of track where they start going on about Jesus or such like and really it would be the equivalent as Hitchens using fairy stories to illustrate his point. Perhaps he should. Perhaps people might relate better to him if he did use fairy stories to illustrate his points. Then he might come across as confident as they do.
I think that another important point is that religion has changed according to society. Things have changed as time has passed. But I suppose on things like human rights are lacking - such as gay marriage - and these are the points that we need to keep arguing with our "culture" of reason, rational and science based, morally good values.
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Michael D Kerrigan on -
There is a reason that the best comedians are Jewish, black, and Irish; it's from a response to suffering. And that there are no good conservative comedians--their attempts at comedy amount to mere mockery, because they do not relate to reality.
-
-
Permalink Reply by Bob on -
Dennis Miller comes to mind..see "Miller Time" on the Oreally O'Reily Factor on FOX NEWS
On September 21, 2006, Miller returned to Fox News -
-
Permalink Reply by Michael D Kerrigan on
-
The quintessential, so-called, comic who has failed at comedy. All that he can do is mock with no connection to reality. Well done, sir.
-
-
Permalink Reply by Alice on -
We have a lot of Jewish friends locally - and there is something Seinfeld in the way they relate... we I really enjoy :)
-
-
Permalink Reply by Alice on
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIQXsf2Cv4Q&feature=player_embedded
I really like this guys style - he's much more non-confrontational - but reasonable and very persuasive...
Although I want to be clear that I do appreciate Hitchens and Dawkins very much also :)
-
-
Permalink Reply by Alice on
-
Yes I've read the blog on drugs by Sam Harris - I'm not sure that I agree with him about the great effects of LSD. I really don't think that taking LSD is such a great thing - those that have taken it don't seem to have done much great in the world. Although I haven't studied the matter so I await correction.
-
-
Permalink Reply by Tom Sarbeck on
-
Alice, your posts told me you have goals. If you ever run for office, and if I can vote for you, I will. I will even campaign for you. Provided of course that you remain an atheist.
-
-
Permalink Reply by Alice on
-
Thanks Tom - I'll bear that in mind if I should ever run for office :) It is something that I've considered - but I don't know what my chances are of every doing that...
-
-
Permalink Reply by Michael D Kerrigan on
-
Well, Cheryl, I know that there are people in the world who are not particularly religious but who think that it has an overall positive effect on humanity--keeps people from being bad, etc. However, they are merely not aware of the atrocities that have been committed in the name of one religion or the other, especially the Catholic Church. When they are made aware of this their overall opinion of the innate goodness of religious institutions can be changed.
I stand by my position, though, that a true believer will not be swayed by a debate because their beliefs are not fact-based; ergo, you can not change their beliefs with the presentation of facts.
-
-
Permalink Reply by Cheryl Kerkin on -
You could argue that no religionist's beliefs are fact-based. But some of them change. Many are on this site. I don't think anyone would change though unless they have contact with minds and opinions from outside their religion.
But unlike John below, although I know so many people are ignorant about atheists and believe us to be the spawn of the devil, which we don't even believe in, I do think, like you, the most important thing to get across is the damage done by monotheistic belief. When this is clearly understood, the agnostics, the fence-sitters, the "you have to believe in something-ers" start to understand why some of us feel the urgency we do. And there is strength in numbers. As we can see with religion. -
-
Permalink Reply by Tom Sarbeck on
-
This spawn of the devil believes that his happiness will have greater effect on believers than books full of facts or hours of conversations.
Who was it who said happiness is the best revenge?
-
CONNECT WITH ATHEIST NEXUS
Latest Activity
- Top News
- Everything
The Flying Atheist commented on Ruth Anthony-Gardner's group Hang With Friends"Chris, thanks for checking in. I hope you're having a wonderful holiday. Enjoy Vesuvius. "
The Flying Atheist commented on Ruth Anthony-Gardner's group Hang With Friends"Joan, you mentioned awhile back about liking to eat a nice steak with some red wine. The Argentinians have a wonderfully simple accompaniment to their steaks: Chimichurri Sauce
It has lots of chopped parsley and garlic!!"
GM joined Yvette's group
Young Atheists
A group for young atheists, any ages from 0-20 welcome! People love to underestimate young people, especially minors who can't vote, but we are a powerful group...we are not alone.
The Flying Atheist commented on Claire Donnelly's group LGBTQI atheists, nontheists, and friends"I'm with you Chrissie, Dallas, and Daniel. If an anti-gay supporter wants to be a selfless martyr and end their life over two people loving each other, then let them kindly proceed, as long as they don't take any innocent victims…"
"A real scary video, Joan, but my nerves are made of straw. Glad the surgery went well! Yes, parsley fights inflammations, very good for you!
What a good picture of Ian, you look well!
And this is to wave goodbye as I'm off to the Vesuvius…"
Joan Denoo commented on Ruth Anthony-Gardner's group Hang With Friends"Thanks for your support friends on Atheist Nexus. I am feeling just fine and in good spirits. I feel well supported and encouraged. I have a cloud of supporters."
Photos
© 2013 Atheist Nexus. All rights reserved. Admin: Richard Haynes.
